Chapter 4 of 6 · 30805 words · ~154 min read

Part I

. Preliminary Survey of the Aft Facing Seated Position_, Air

Force Technical Report 5915, (Wright Patterson AFB, OH: Wright Air Development Center, 1949) and Maj. John P. Stapp, _Part II. The Aft Facing Position and the Development of a Crash Harness_, Air Force Technical Report 5915 (Wright Patterson AFB, OH: Wright Air Development Center, 1951).

[62] _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part II_, 6.

[63] Signed, sworn statement of Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., Col., USAF (Ret).

[64] ibid.

[65] Alderson Research Laboratories, Inc., “Instructions for Operation and Maintenance, Model F-95 Anthropomorphic Test Dummies,” May 3, 1956, 1, and Glenn Richards, retired Balloon Branch Instrumentation Specialist, telephone interview with Capt. James McAndrew, September 5, 1995.

[66] Alderson Research Laboratories, Inc., “Instructions for Operation and Maintenance, Model F-95 Anthropomorphic Test Dummies,” May 3, 1956, 1, and Ronald G. Hansen, Lt. Col. USAR, (Ret), Balloon Recovery Helicopter Pilot, telephone interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 1, 1995.

[67] _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part I_, 7–8.

[68] Blankenship.

[69] ibid.

[70] _The Beverly Hills Citizen_, March 12, 1956, 7.

[71] Research Division, College of Engineering, New York University, _Special Report No. 1, Constant Level Balloon_, May 1947, 20–22.

[72] Research Division, College of Engineering, New York University, Technical Report No. 93.03, _Constant Level Balloons, Operations_, March 1, 1951, 105.

[73] U.S. Air Force Phillips Laboratory, “Phillips Laboratory Space Experiments Directorate, Balloon, Rocket, and Satellite Capabilities,” n.d., 33.

[74] Bernard D. Gildenberg, Balloon Branch Meteorologist and Engineer, interviewed by 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 28, 1995, and _Contributions of Balloon Operations 1947–1958_, 73.

[75] ibid.

[76] ibid.

[77] _Contributions of Balloon Operations 1947–1958_, 73.

[78] “Flight Summary, Non-Extensible Balloon Operations, 6580th Test Squadron (Special), June 1950 to October 1954,” 22–24.

[79] _Contributions of Balloon Operations 1947–1958_, 73–74.

[80] Lt. Col. David G. Simons (MC), _Stratosphere Balloon Techniques for Exposing Living Specimens to Primary Cosmic Ray Particles_, Holloman Air Development Center TR 54-16, November 1954, 10–11.

[81] “Flight Summary Non-Extensible Balloon Operations 6580th Test Squadron (Special), June 1950 to October 1954,” 1–31, and _Contributions of Balloon Operations 1947–1958_, 24.

[82] “Flight Summary Non-Extensible Balloon Operations 6580th Test Squadron (Special), June 1950 to October 1954,” 4.

[83] Research Division, College of Engineering, New York University, _Technical Report No. 93.02, Constant Level Balloons_, Section 3, _Summary of Flights_, July 15, 1949, 32, in Headquarters United States Air Force, _The Roswell Report: Fact vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert_ (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1995), Appendix 12.

[84] Holloman Air Development Center, “Test Report on Radar Target Balloons”, October 31, 1955, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell, AFB, AL, Reel # 31811, Frame 1139, and _Contributions of Balloon Operations 1947–1958_, 40–45.

[85] Kevin C. Ruffner, ed., _Corona: America’s First Satellite Program_ (Washington, D.C.: Center for the Study of Intelligence, Central Intelligence Agency, 1995), 22.

[86] ibid., 21–22.

[87] Air Force Missile Development Center, “Chronology of Events,” Sept. 1, 1957-Aug 10, 1962, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell, AFB, AL, Reel # 31731, Frame 561, and Flight Records of Bernard D. Gildenberg, Meteorologist, Holloman AFB Balloon Branch, October 12, 1956-March 14, 1961.

[88] Flight Summary, DISCOVERER Balloon Flights, March 31, 1960-April 22, 1960, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell, AFB, AL, Reel# 31811, frame 569.

[89] ibid.

[90] ibid.

[91] Kevin C. Ruffner, ed., _Corona: America’s First Satellite Program_ (Washington, D.C.: Center for the Study of Intelligence, Central Intelligence Agency, 1995), 21–22.

[92] ibid.

[93] ibid.

[94] Martin Marietta Corporation, “Viking '75, Balloon Launched Decelerator Test Program Post Flight Report, BLDT Vehicle AV-3,” TR 3720293, 1972, IV-I and Edward J. Kirschner, _Aerospace Balloons; From Montgolfiere to Space_ (Blue Ridge Summit, Pa.: Aero Publishers, 1985), 64–66.

[95] Martin Marietta Corporation, “Viking '75, Balloon Launched Decelerator Test Program Post Flight Report, BLDT Vehicle AV-3,” TR 3720293, 1972, IV-I.

[96] Kevin D. Randle and Donald R. Schmitt, _The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell_ (New York: Avon Books, 1994), photograph section.

[97] Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratories, “Report on Research, for the Period July 1965-June 1967”, AFCRL TR-68-0039, November 1967, 150–151.

[98] Gildenberg.

[99] Database of high altitude balloon operations on file at SAF/AAZD compiled from the following sources: Research Division, College of Engineering, New York University, _Technical Report No. 93.02, Constant Level Balloons_, Section 3, _Summary of Flights_, July 15, 1949; “Flight Summary Non-Extensible Balloon Operations 6580th Test Squadron (Special), June 1950 to October 1954,” National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., Accession No. 342-62A-181, box 14/18; Flight Records of Bernard D. Gildenberg, Meteorologist, Holloman AFB Balloon Branch, October 12, 1956-March 14, 1961; “Summary of Balloon Flights Launched from Holloman AFB, N.M., 1962 thru 1987”, Space and Missile Command, Test and Evaluation Unit (SMC/TE, OL-AC) files, Holloman AFB, N.M. Additional flight data on file (microfilm), U.S. Air Force Phillips Laboratory, Geophysics Directorate, Hanscom AFB, Mass.

[100] Bernard D. Gildenberg, _Meteorological Aspects of Constant-Level Balloon Operations in the Southwestern United States_, AFCRL-66-706 (L.G. Hanscom Field, Bedford, MA: Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratories, October 1966), and Bernard D. Gildenberg, _General Philosophy and Techniques of Balloon Control_, in Lewis A. Grass, ed., _Proceedings, Sixth AFCRL Scientific Balloon Symposium_, AFCRL-70-0543, (L.G. Hanscom Field, Bedford, Mass.: Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratories, October 1970).

[101] Blankenship.

[102] ibid.

[103] ibid.

[104] ibid.

[105] ibid.

[106] Joseph Longshore, Balloon Branch Supervisor, telephone interview with Capt. James McAndrew, August 16, 1995.

[107] Signed sworn statement of James Ragsdale in Ragsdale Productions Inc., _The Jim Ragsdale Story: A Closer Look at the Roswell Incident_ (Hall Poorbough Press, Inc., 1996), 10–11, and signed sworn statement of James Ragsdale in Karl T. Pflock, _Roswell in Perspective_ (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO Research, 1994), 167.

[108] James Ragsdale, interview with Donald R. Schmitt, January 26, 1993.

[109] _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part II_, 17.

[110] _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops Part I_, 27–30 and _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part II_, 6, 10–12, 17.

[111] Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., Col., USAF (Ret), interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, June 23, 1995.

[112] _Contributions of Balloon Operations to Research and Development at the Air Force Missile Development Center, 1947–1958_, 90, and _Meteorological Aspects of Constant-Level Balloon Operations in the Southwestern United States_, 1.

[113] _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops Part I_, 24.

[114] Blankenship and Kittinger.

[115] ibid.

[116] Memorandum, subj: Balloon Tracking and Recovery Equipment, n.d., National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., Accession No. 342-67B-2133, box 65/249, file 2, “Biophysics Branch-Escape Section, High Altitude Escape Studies, 7218-71719.”

[117] ibid., and Blankenship.

[118] Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore, _The Roswell Incident_ (New York: Berkley, 1980), 64, and Don Berliner and Stanton Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 88.

[119] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Knight interview.

[120] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Maltais interview.

[121] Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore, _The Roswell Incident_ (New York: Berkley, 1980), 64, and Don Berliner and Stanton Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 88.

[122] Berliner and Friedman, 89.

[123] Mark Rodeghier and Fred Whiting, _The Plains of San Agustin Controversy, July, 1947: Gerald Anderson, Barney Barnett, and the Archaeologists_, Introduction (Chicago, IL, Washington, D.C.: J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies and The Fund for UFO Research, June 1992), 2.

[124] ibid.

[125] Kevin D. Randle, Donald R. Schmitt, and Thomas J. Carey, _Gerald Anderson and the Plains of San Agustin, in The Plains of San Agustin Controversy, July, 1947: Gerald Anderson, Barney Barnett, and the Archaeologists_ (Chicago, IL, Washington, D.C.: J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, and The Fund for UFO Research, June 1992), 19.

[126] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[127] Berliner and Friedman, 90.

[128] ibid., 91.

[129] Gerald F. Anderson, interview with Kevin D. Randle, February 4, 1990, in _The Plains of San Agustin Controversy, July, 1947: Gerald Anderson, Barney Barnett, and the Archaeologists_ (Chicago, IL, Washington, D.C.: J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies and The Fund for UFO Research, June 1992), 59.

[130] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[131] ibid.

[132] ibid.

[133] ibid.

[134] ibid.

[135] Blankenship and Kittinger.

[136] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[137] “Sierra Sam: Scientific Whipping Boy,” _Machine Design_, December 22, 1960 and “Dummy Takes a Beating for Science’s Sake,” _Aviation Week_, January 12, 1953.

[138] Ragsdale.

[139] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[140] Alderson Research Laboratories Inc., “Modular Series Anthropomorphic Test Dummies,” Alderson Research Laboratories Inc., June 1955), 5.

[141] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[142] ibid.

[143] Signed, sworn statement of Raymond A. Madson, Lt. Col., USAF (Ret).

[144] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[145] _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part I_, 22.

[146] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[147] _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part I_, 9, and _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part II_, 8.

[148] Berliner and Friedman, 91.

[149] ibid., 92–94.

[150] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[151] ibid.

[152] Memorandum, subject: Balloon Tracking and Recovery Equipment, n.d., National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., Accession No. 342-67B-2133, box 65/249, file 2, “Biophysics Branch-Escape Section, High Altitude Escape Studies, 7218-71719,” and _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, Part I_, 17, and “Weekly Test Status Report on Project 7218, Manned Balloon Flights, (MX-1450B)”, for Week Ending 28 February 1955, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., Accession No. 342-66A-181, Box 14/18.

[153] Kittinger and Historical Branch, Office of Information Services, Air Research and Development Command, _History of Flight Support Holloman Air Development Center 1946–1957_ (Holloman AFB, N.M.: Holloman Air Development Center, 1957), 101.

[154] Blankenship.

[155] Berliner and Friedman, 106.

[156] Bernard D. Gildenberg, _Techniques Developed for Heavy Load Non-Extensible Balloon Flights_, Report No. HADC-TN-54-3 (Holloman AFB, NM: Holloman Air Development Center, March 1954), 7.

[157] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[158] Blankenship and Ole Jorgeson, MSgt., USAF, (Ret), Balloon Branch Communications Supervisor, interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 28, 1995.

[159] ibid.

[160] Berliner and Friedman, 107.

[161] ibid.

[162] Blankenship.

[163] Berliner and Friedman, 106.

[164] Blankenship.

[165] Signed sworn statement of James Ragsdale in, Ragsdale Productions Inc., _The Jim Ragsdale Story: A Closer Look at the Roswell Incident_ (Hall Poorbough Press, Inc., 1996), 10–11, and signed sworn statement of James Ragsdale in Karl T. Pflock, _Roswell in Perspective_ (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO Research, 1994), 167.

[166] Ragsdale.

[167] Frank J. Kaufman, interview with Kevin Randle and Donald Schmitt, January 27, 1990.

[168] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[169] Ragsdale.

[170] ibid.

[171] Berliner and Friedman, 92.

[172] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Maltais interview.

[173] ibid., Knight interview.

[174] ibid., Anderson interview.

[175] ibid., Maltais interview.

[176] ibid.

[177] ibid., Anderson interview.

[178] Ragsdale.

[179] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[180] ibid., Maltais interview.

[181] ibid., Anderson interview.

[182] ibid.

[183] ibid., Maltais interview.

[184] ibid., Anderson interview.

[185] Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore, _The Roswell Incident_ (New York: Berkley, 1980), 61.

[186] Berliner and Friedman, 92.

[187] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[188] Berliner and Friedman, 91.

[189] ibid.

[190] ibid., 92.

[191] ibid., 91.

[192] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Maltais interview.

[193] Berliner and Friedman, 93.

[194] ibid., 93–94.

[195] ibid., 92.

[196] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[197] Berliner and Friedman, 106.

[198] Ragsdale.

[199] ibid.

[200] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[201] ibid.

[202] Ragsdale.

[203] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[204] ibid.

[205] ibid.

[206] Berliner and Friedman, 106.

[207] Ragsdale.

[208] Berliner and Friedman, 107.

[209] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[210] ibid.

[211] Ragsdale.

[212] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[213] Ragsdale.

[214] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[215] Ragsdale.

[216] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Anderson interview.

[217] ibid.

[218] Berliner and Friedman, 107.

Notes - Section Two

[1] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 103.

[2] Don Berliner and Stanton T. Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 117, 120, and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992, 18–19.

[3] Video, _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO Research, 1993) (hereafter _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_).

[4] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[5] ibid.

[6] ibid.

[7] ibid.

[8] ibid., and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992, and Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 103.

[9] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 103.

[10] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[11] ibid.

[12] ibid.

[13] Don Berliner and Stanton T. Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 120, and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[14] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 103.

[15] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[16] Don Berliner and Stanton T. Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 117.

[17] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[18] ibid.

[19] ibid.

[20] ibid.

[21] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Stanton T. Friedman, August 5, 1989.

[22] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[23] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[24] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[25] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[26] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[27] ibid.

[28] ibid.

[29] Don Berliner and Stanton T. Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 119, and Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 105.

[30] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[31] ibid.

[32] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[33] ibid.

[34] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 105, and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[35] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 105.

[36] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Stanton T. Friedman, August 5, 1989.

[37] ibid.

[38] Don Berliner and Stanton T. Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 119.

[39] Headquarters United States Air Force, _The Roswell Report: Fact vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert_ (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1995), Attachment 32, “Synopsis of Balloon Research Findings by 1st Lt. James McAndrew”.

[40] 427th AAFBU Sq “M” Morning Reports, July 8–9, 1947, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[41] Personnel record of 1st Lt. Angele A. (LaRue) Thessing, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[42] ibid.

[43] Personnel records of Capt. Joyce Goddard, 1st Lt. Rosemary J. Brown, 1st Lt. Eileen M. Fanton, 1st Lt. Angele A. LaRue, 1st Lt. Claudia Uebele, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[44] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 132, and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Stanton T. Friedman, August 5, 1989.

[45] Paul McCarthy, “The Case of the Vanishing Nurses,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 107–114.

[46] WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[47] DD Form 214, “Armed Forces of the United States Report of Transfer or Discharge”, April 30, 1958, Personnel file of Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[48] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 132.

[49] WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” and WD AGO FORM 66-3, “AAF Medical Dep’t Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[50] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[51] WD AGO FORM 66-3, “AAF Medical Dep’t Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[52] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 104 and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992, 11, 15.

[53] WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[54] ibid.

[55] WD MD FORM 55A, “Clinical Record Brief,” September 5, 1947, and WD AGO FORM 8-38, “Special Examination or Additional Data,” September 11, 1947, Personnel Record of Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[56] ibid, and Physical Examination Board Proceedings, Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, August 24, 1955, Personnel Record of Capt. Eileen M. Fanton, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[57] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Stanton T. Friedman, August 5, 1989, and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[58] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Stanton T. Friedman, August 5, 1989.

[59] ibid.

[60] Roster of Officers, 6th Bomb Wing, Walker AFB, N.M., December 30, 1952, “History of the 6th Bomb Wing, December 1952,” Air Force Historical Research Center, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[61] ibid.

[62] Dr. Frank B. Nordstrom, interview with Capt. James McAndrew, April 25, 1996, and Dr. Frank B. Nordstrom, Signed Sworn Statement, April 25, 1996.

[63] Charles E. Clouthier, Signed Sworn Statement, April 26, 1996.

[64] ibid.

[65] J.P. Cahn, “Flying Saucers and the Mysterious Little Green Men,” _True_ 31, No. 184, (September 1952), 19.

[66] ibid., 103.

[67] ibid., 19.

[68] J.P. Cahn, “Flying Saucer Swindlers,” _True_ 36, No. 231, (August 1956), 36.

[69] ibid., 36.

[70] J.P. Cahn, “Flying Saucers and the Mysterious Little Green Men,” _True_ 31, No. 184, (September 1952), 110.

[71] ibid.

[72] “4 Rank Titles Change,” _Air Force Times_, March 29, 1952, 1, 22.

[73] Alan L. Gropman, _The Air Force Integrates, 1945–1964_ (Washington, D.C.: Office of Air Force History, 1985), 243.

[74] Don Berliner and Stanton T. Friedman, _Crash at Corona_ (New York: Paragon House, 1992), 117.

[75] WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” and AF FORM 11, “Officer Military Record,” Personnel Record of Col. Lee F. Ferrell, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[76] ibid.

[77] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 105, and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[78] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 105.

[79] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 105, and W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[80] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

[81] ibid.

[82] ibid.

[83] 427th AAFBU Sq. “M” Morning Reports, July 1–31, 1947, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[84] WD AGO FORM 1, “Morning Report,” 427th AAFBU Sq. “M,” April 1, 1947 through October 1, 1947, and WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Joyce Goddard, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[85] WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Joyce Goddard, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[86] WD AGO FORM 1, “Morning Report,” 427th AAFBU, Sq. “M,” August 7, 1947, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[87] ibid., and WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Lucille C. Slattery, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[88] Ethel Kovatch-Scott, Col., USAF (Ret), telephone interview with Capt. James McAndrew, May 5, 1995 and July 3, 1996, and Mary Hoadley, Lt. Col., USAF (Ret), telephone interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 5, 1995, and Mary L. Wiggins, Maj., USAF (Ret), telephone interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 5, 1995.

[89] ibid.

[90] WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” Personnel Record of Capt. Lucille C. Slattery, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[91] WD AGO FORM 1, “Morning Report,” 427th AAFBU, Sq. “M,” 509th Station Medical Group, 509th Medical Group, 509th Medical Squadron, January 1947 through February 1952, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo. and Rosters of Officers, 509th Bomb Wing- February 1952 through July 1958, 6th Bomb Wing- February 1952 through March 1967, and AF FORM 11, “Officer Military Record,” Personnel Record of Maj. Idabelle M. Wilson, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[92] AF FORM 11, “Officer Military Record,” Personnel Record of Maj. Idabelle M. Wilson, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[93] ibid.

[94] Idabelle M. Wilson, Maj., USAF, (Ret), telephone interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, April 28, 1995.

[95] ibid.

[96] Memo: Jack A. Comstock, Maj. (MC), Surgeon, 509th Station Medical Group, to Major Robert W. Schick, Investigating Officer, Headquarters, USAF, subj: Investigation of B-29 Crash, 18 August 1948, Aircraft Accident No. 48-8-12, Aircraft #44-86383, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL. and WD AGO Form 8-33, “Clinical Record Brief,” 12 August 1948, Personnel records of Air Force members, service numbers AF 18041408 and AF 16191866, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[97] ibid.

[98] ibid.

[99] WD AGO Form 8-33, “Clinical Record Brief,” 16 May 1949, Personnel records of Air Force members, service numbers AO 827137 and AF 42050093, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[100] WD AGO Form 5-4, “Individual Crash Fire Report,” 20 May 1949, Aircraft Accident No. 49-5-16, Aircraft #43-48401, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[101] WD AGO Form 8-33, “Clinical Record Brief,” 16 May 1949, Personnel records of Air Force members, service numbers AO 827137 and AF 42050093, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[102] WD AGO Form 5-4, “Individual Crash Fire Report,” 19 December 1949, Aircraft Accident No. 49-12-15-2, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[103] WD AGO Form 8-33, “Clinical Record Brief,” 19 December 1949, and “Autopsy Report,” Personnel records of Air Force members, service numbers 17343A, AF 11101085, and 15239923, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[104] ibid.

[105] WD AGO Form 8-33, “Clinical Record Brief,” 1 June 1950, Personnel records of Air Force members, service numbers AO 685565 and AF 32668639, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[106] ibid.

[107] ibid.

[108] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 16, 1955 of Air Force members, service numbers AO 3006516 and AO 3004607, Aircraft Accident No. 55-6-16-6, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[109] DD Form 481-3, “Clinical Record Cover Sheet,” June 16, 1955, Personnel Records of Air Force members, service numbers AO 3006516 and AO 3004607, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[110] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 16, 1955, of Air Force members, service numbers AO 3006516 and AO 3004607, Aircraft Accident No. 55-6-16-6, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[111] Air Force Form 14b, “Medical Report of an Individual Involved in AF Aircraft Accident,” 3 October 1955, Aircraft Accident No. 55-10-3-6, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[112] Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. October 4, thru October 7, 1955, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to MCTSG, October 12, 1955, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and AF Form 715, “Preparation Room History,” 4 October 1955, Personnel Record of Air Force member, service number 1521B/2009467, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[113] Air Force Form 14b, “Medical Report of an Individual Involved in AF Aircraft Accident,” 3 October 1955, Aircraft Accident No. 55-10-3-6, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[114] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 27, 1956, Personnel Record of Air Force members, service numbers AO 2223861 and AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[115] Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. 27 June through 30 June 1956, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to Thomas W. Toy, Chief Memorial Affairs Branch, Air Force Services Division, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[116] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 27, 1956, Personnel Record of Air Force members, service numbers AO 2223861 and AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and Air Force Form 14b, “Medical Report of an Individual Involved in AF Aircraft Accident,” June 26, 1956, Headquarters Air Force Safety Agency, Kirtland AFB, N.M.

[117] AF Form 697, “Identification Findings and Conclusions,” 3 Feb 1960, Personnel Records of Air Force members, service numbers AO 794152 and 1046844, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[118] ibid.

[119] ibid.

[120] Charles A. Ravenstein, _Air Force Combat Wings; Lineage and Honors Histories, 1947–1977_ (Washington D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1984), 16, 275–276.

[121] Air Force Form 14, “Report of Air Force Aircraft Accident,” June 26, 1956, Headquarters Air Force Safety Agency, Kirtland AFB, N.M.

[122] ibid.

[123] ibid.

[124] ibid.

[125] ibid.

[126] Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. 27 June through 30 June 1956, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to Thomas W. Toy, Chief Memorial Affairs Branch, Air Force Services Division, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[127] ibid.

[128] Jack L. Whenry, Maj., USAF, (Ret), telephone interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, January 26, 1995, and John C. Walter, MSgt., USAF (Ret), telephone interview with Capt. James McAndrew, June 29, 1995 and July 12, 1996.

[129] ibid.

[130] Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. 27 June through 30 June 1956, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to Thomas W. Toy, Chief Memorial Affairs Branch, Air Force Services Division, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[131] ibid.

[132] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview, and Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 104.

[133] DD Form 481-3, “Clinical Record Cover Sheet,” June 26, 1956, Personnel Record of AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[134] Whenry, Walters, and Air Force Manual 143-1, 1 November 1953, “Mortuary Affairs,” 28, Record Group 341, Entry 36, Box 13, Microfilm Reel 167, National Archives and Record Administration, College Park, Md.

[135] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[136] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 27, 1956, Personnel Record of Air Force members, service numbers AO 2223861 and AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[137] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[138] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 27, 1956, Personnel Record of Air Force member, service number AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[139] ibid.

[140] ibid.

[141] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[142] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 27, 1956, Personnel Record of Air Force members, service numbers AO 2223861 and AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and Air Force Form 14b, “Medical Report of an Individual Involved in AF Aircraft Accident,” June 26, 1956, Headquarters Air Force Safety Agency, Kirtland AFB, N.M.

[143] DD Form 481-3, “Clinical Record Cover Sheet,” June 26, 1956, Personnel Record of Air Force members, service numbers AO 2223861 and AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[144] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 108.

[145] Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. October 4, thru October 7, 1955, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to MCTSG, October 12, 1955, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and AF Form 697, “Identification Findings and Conclusions,” 3 Feb 1960, Personnel Records of Air Force members, service numbers AO 794152 and 1046844, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[146] Air Force Manual 143-1, 1 November 1953, “Mortuary Affairs,” 28–29, Accession No. 341, Entry 36, Box 13, Microfilm Reel 167, National Archives and Record Administration, College Park, Md.

[147] Official Trip Report—Walker AFB, N.M. 27 June through 30 June 1956, George J. Schwaderer, Identification Specialist, to Thomas W. Toy, Chief Memorial Affairs Branch, July 5, 1956, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and Jack L. Whenry, Maj., USAF, (Ret), telephone interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, January 26, 1995, and John C. Walter, MSgt., USAF (Ret), telephone interview with Capt. James McAndrew, June 29, 1995 and July 12, 1996.

[148] Walter and Whenry.

[149] ibid.

[150] WD AGO FORM 66, “Officer’s Qualification Record,” and AF FORM 11, “Officer Military Record,” Personnel Record of Col. Lee F. Ferrell, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[151] “Air Force Care of Deceased Personnel (1951–1959), Volume 1: Text”, Historical Study No. 236, Call No. K 201-326, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[152] Air Force Manual 143-1, 1 November 1953, “Mortuary Affairs,” 27, Accession No. 341, Entry 36, Box 13, Microfilm Reel 167, National Archives and Record Administration, College Park, Md.

[153] Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. 27 June through 30 June 1956, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to Thomas W. Toy, Chief Memorial Affairs Branch, Air Force Services Division, July 5, 1956 and Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. October 4, thru October 7, 1955, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to MCTSG, October 12, 1955, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[154] Official Trip Report Walker AFB, N.M. 27 June through 30 June 1956, George Schwaderer, Identification Specialist to Thomas W. Toy, Chief Memorial Affairs Branch, Air Force Services Division, July 5, 1956, Accession No. 342-65A-6025, Box 25/28, folder Trip Rpts., Search & Ident: Mar 56 to Dec 56. Trip #198 to 234, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[155] George J. Schwaderer, telephone interview with Capt. James McAndrew, June 28, 1996.

[156] ibid.

[157] Air Force Manual 143-1, 1 November 1953, “Mortuary Affairs,” 27, Accession No. 341, Entry 36, Box 13, Microfilm Reel 167, National Archives and Record Administration, College Park, Md.

[158] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 104.

[159] Memo, Charles J. Stahl, M.D., Armed Forces Medical Examiner, to Capt. James McAndrew, SAF/AAZD, subj: Request for Information on Aircraft Crash Fatalities, October 13, 1995.

[160] Unit history, 4036 USAF Hospital, Walker AFB, N.M., June 1956, 6, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[161] ibid.

[162] Standard form 503, “Autopsy Protocol,” June 27, 1956, Personnel Record of of Air Force members, service numbers AO 2223861 and AF 37578524, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[163] Air Force Missile Development Center, _MAN-HIGH I_, MDC-TR-59-24, 1959, and Lt. Col. David G. Simons, _MAN HIGH II_, Air Force Missile Development Center, Holloman AFB, N.M., AFMDC-TR-59-28, June 1959, 1, and Air Force Missile Development Center, _MAN HIGH III_, MDC-TR-60-16, 1961.

[164] Historical Branch, Office of Information Services, Air Force Missile Development Center, Air Research and Development Command, Holloman AFB, N.M., _Contributions of Balloon Operations to Research and Development at the Air Force Missile Development Center Holloman Air Force Base, N. Mex. 1947–1958_ (hereafter _Contributions of Balloon Operations 1947–1958_), 11.

[165] ibid., and Air Force Missile Development Center FORM 597, Schedule Request- Project 7222/4.2- “Manned Gondola Flight,” May 19, 20, 22, 1959, Accession No. 342-65B-3185, Box 4/22, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[166] DD FORM 481-3, “Clinical Record Cover Sheet,” May 21, 1959, Personnel Record of Capt. Dan D. Fulgham, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and Air Force Missile Development Center FORM 597, Schedule Request- Project 7222/4.2- “Manned Gondola Flight,” May 20, 1959, Accession No. 342-65B-3185, Box 4/22, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[167] DD Form 613, R&D Progress Card, Project 7164, “Physiology of Flight,” Task 71840, “Life Supporting Systems for Advanced Vehicles,” February 24, 1959, 30–31, National Archives and Record Administration Accession No. 342-75-095, Box 93/100, folder 1, and Technical “R&D” Record Book, Aeromedical Laboratory, Physiology Branch, “Life Support System for Orbital Flight,” Project 7164, Task 71840, 13–16, National Archives and Record Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo. Accession No. 342-75-095, Box 93/100, folder 2.

[168] Air Force Form 77, “USAF Officer Effectiveness Report, 1 Feb 58 to 31 Jan 59, Personnel Record of Capt. Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and Capt. Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., _The Long, Lonely Leap_, (New York: E.P. Dutton & Co., Inc., 1961) 131.

[169] Air Force Missile Development Center, _Man-High I_, MDC-TR-59-24, 1959.

[170] Schedule Request- Project 7222/4.2- “Manned Gondola Flight,” May 19, 20, 22, 1959, Accession No. 342-65B-3185, Box 4/22, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[171] ibid.

[172] Ole Jorgeson, MSgt., USAF, (Ret), interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 28, 1995.

[173] Air Force Missile Development Center FORM 597, Schedule Request- Project 7222/4.2- “Manned Gondola Flight,” May 19, 1959, Accession No. 342-65B-3185, Box 4/22, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[174] Air Force Missile Development Center FORM 597, Schedule Request- Project 7222/4.2- “Manned Gondola Flight,” May 20, 1959, Accession No. 342-65B-3185, Box 4/22.

[175] ibid.

[176] ibid.

[177] ibid., and Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., Col., USAF (Ret), interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, June 23, 1995.

[178] Kittinger.

[179] ibid.

[180] ibid.

[181] Dan D. Fulgham, Col., USAF, (Ret), interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 26, 1995.

[182] ibid. and Standard Form 539, “Abbreviated Clinical Record,” May 21, 1959, Personnel Record of Col. Dan D. Fulgham, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[183] ibid.

[184] Jorgeson and Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt., USAF (Ret), interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 31, 1995.

[185] ibid.

[186] Fulgham and William C. Kaufman, Lt. Col., USAF, (Ret), interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 24, 1995.

[187] ibid.

[188] Jorgeson.

[189] Kaufman.

[190] Signed, sworn statement of Dan D. Fulgham, Col., USAF, (Ret), May 25, 1995.

[191] Kittinger.

[192] ibid.

[193] Video, _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, Gerald Anderson interview, (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO Research, 1993).

[194] Kittinger and Air Force Form 77, “USAF Officer Effectiveness Report,” 1 Feb 58 to 31 Jan 59, Personnel Record of Col. Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[195] Kittinger.

[196] ibid., and Kaufman.

[197] Kittinger.

[198] ibid.

[199] ibid.

[200] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[201] Signed, sworn statements of Charles A. Coltman, Col. (MC), USAF, (Ret), Dan D. Fulgham, Col., USAF, (Ret), Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., Col., USAF, (Ret), Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt., USAF, (Ret), Ole Jorgeson, MSgt., USAF, (Ret), and statement of William C. Kaufman, Lt. Col., USAF, (Ret).

[202] Kittinger.

[203] Capt. Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., _The Long, Lonely Leap_, (New York: E.P. Dutton & Co., Inc., 1961) 130.

[204] Kittinger.

[205] Signed, sworn statements of Charles A. Coltman, Col. (MC), USAF, (Ret), Dan D. Fulgham, Col., USAF, (Ret), Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., Col., USAF, (Ret), Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt., USAF, (Ret), Ole Jorgeson, MSgt., USAF, (Ret), and statement of William C. Kaufman, Lt. Col., USAF, (Ret).

[206] Craig D. Ryan, _The Pre-Astronauts_, (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 1995), 200.

[207] Air Force Missile Development Center FORM 597, Schedule Request- Project 7222/4.2- “Manned Gondola Flight,” May 19, 1959, Accession No. 342-65B-3185, Box 4/22, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo., and Memo: Maj. Lawrence M. Bogard, Chief, Balloon Branch, to MDWXB, subj: Project 7222, 8 May 1959.

[208] ibid., and Jorgeson.

[209] Jorgeson.

[210] ibid.

[211] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[212] ibid.

[213] ibid.

[214] Karl T. Pflock, “Star Witness: The Mortician of Roswell Breaks His Code of Silence,” _Omni_, Fall 1995, 103.

[215] _Recollections of Roswell, Part II_, W. Glenn Dennis interview.

[216] Jorgeson.

[217] Unit History, 47th Air Division, June 1954, photo section, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, AL.

[218] Unit History, 6th Bomb Wing, June 1959, Annex “N,” “Base Support Plan, Medical,” June 1, 1959.

[219] Charles A. Ravenstein, _Air Force Combat Wings; Lineage and Honors Histories, 1947–1977_ (Washington D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1984), 16.

[220] Kaufman.

[221] ibid.

[222] Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt., USAF, (Ret), interview with 1st Lt. James McAndrew, May 31, 1995.

[223] Fulgham.

[224] Kittinger.

[225] ibid.

[226] ibid.

[227] ibid., and ltr., Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Director, Dearborn Observatory, Northwestern University, to Maj. Hector Quintanilla, Chief Aerial Phenomena Branch, December 6, 1965, National Air Intelligence Center historical files, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH.

[228] Kevin D. Randle and Donald R. Schmitt, _The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell_ (New York: Avon Books, 1994), 22.

[229] Standard Form 539, “Abbreviated Clinical Record,” May 21, 1959, Personnel Record of Col. Dan D. Fulgham, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[230] Fulgham.

[231] Kittinger.

[232] ibid.

[233] Kaufman.

[234] DD Form 640, “Nursing Notes,” May 24, 1959, and DD Form 728, “Doctor’s Orders,” May 22, 1959, Personnel Record of Col. Dan D. Fulgham, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[235] Kittinger, Kaufman, and DD Form 728 “Doctor’s Orders,” May 22, 1959, Personnel Record of Col. Dan D. Fulgham, National Archives and Records Administration, National Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, Mo.

[236] ibid.

[237] Kittinger.

[238] ibid.

[239] Fulgham.

Appendix A

[Illustration: Anthropomorphic Dummy Launch and Landing Locations

Source: Test records of U.S. Air Force aeromedical project no. 7218, task 71719 (HIGH DIVE) and project no. 7222, task 71748 (EXCELSIOR).]

High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Number Date Launch Site Landing Site ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 6/23/54 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

2 6/28/54 Holloman AFB, N.M. Dunkin, N.M.

3 6/30/54 Holloman AFB, N.M. 10 miles Southwest of Holloman AFB, N.M.

4 12/1/54 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

5 12/2/54 Holloman AFB, N.M. 12 miles South of Artesia, N.M.

6 12/6/54 Holloman AFB, N.M. Near Twin Buttes, N.M.

7 12/9/54 Holloman AFB, N.M. 3 miles West of Twin Buttes, N.M.

8 2/23/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 28 miles East of Roswell, N.M.

9 3/1/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 25 miles South of Caprock, N.M.

10 3/3/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 25 miles East/Northeast of Roswell, N.M.

11 6/15/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 5 miles Northwest of Dunkin, N.M.

12 6/23/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 35 miles Southwest of Holloman AFB, N.M.

13 6/29/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 25 miles West of Three Rivers, N.M.

14 7/7/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 13 miles West of Tularosa Peak, N.M.

15 7/15/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 15 miles Northeast of Hatch, N.M.

16 11/17/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. 8 miles Northwest of Roswell, N.M.

17 11/21/55 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

18 1/25/56 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

19 2/8/56 Holloman AFB, N.M. 20 miles South of Roswell, N.M.

20 2/21/56 Holloman AFB, N.M. 20 miles East of Dunkin, N.M.

21 2/21/56 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

22 5/18/56 Holloman AFB, N.M. Data Not Available

23 5/22/56 Holloman AFB, N.M. Data Not Available

24 8/21/56 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

25 5/16/57 Truth or White Sands Proving

Consequences, N.M. Ground, N.M.

26 5/29/57 Hatch, N.M. 25 miles Northwest of Las Cruces, N.M.

27 6/4/57 Holloman AFB, N.M. 11 miles North of Las Cruces, N.M.

28 6/6/57 Holloman AFB, N.M. 17 miles South of Holloman AFB, N.M.

29 6/7/57 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

30 6/11/57 Hatch, N.M. West of San Agustin Pass, N.M.

31 6/13/57 Holloman AFB, N.M. Holloman AFB, N.M.

32 9/27/57 White Sands Natl Monument Picnic Area Orogrande, N.M.

33 10/8/57 White Sands Proving 10 miles East of Picacho, N.M. Ground

34 1/29/58 Data Not Available 20 miles South of Alamogordo, N.M.

35 1/9/59 Holloman AFB, N.M. White Sands Proving Ground, N.M.

36 1/14/59 Las Palomas, N.M. 30 miles East/Southeast of Roswell, N.M.

37 1/30/59 Nutt, N.M. White Sands Proving Ground, N.M.

38 2/4/59 Holloman AFB, N.M. 1 mile North of Bent, N.M.

39 2/6/59 Lake Valley, N.M. Data Not Available

40 2/10/59 Caballo Dam, N.M. White Sands Proving Ground, N.M.

41 2/11/59 Hatch, N.M. Data Not Available

42 2/14/59 Data Not Available 30 miles West of Holloman AFB, N.M.

43 2/16/59 Ft. Craig, N.M. Mescalero Apache Reservation (N.M.)

Appendix B

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Date: 26 April 1996 Place: Farmington, NM

I Charles E. Clouthier, hereby state that James McAndrew, was identified as a Captain, USAFR on this date at my place of employment do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I was on active duty in the US Air Force and stationed at Walker AFB, Roswell, NM, from February 1955 until October 1956. During that time I was a pharmacist assigned to the base hospital. Following my tour of duty with the Air Force, I returned to my hometown, Farmington, NM, where I became an employee and eventually a co-owner of Farmington Drug.

With the exception of the two years in the US Air Force, I have been a resident of Farmington, NM since 1934. It is my recollection that Dr Frank B. Nordstrom was the first pediatrician to practice in the Farmington area and he remained the only pediatrician in Farmington until approximately 1970. I base these recollections on extensive professional and personal contacts with physicians in the Farmington area and as a father of two children who were patients of Dr Nordstrom’s.

Also based on nearly 40 years of contact with physicians in the Farmington area, I believe that Dr Nordstrom is the only physician who served a tour of duty at Walker AFB. During the 1960s, I became aware that Dr Nordstrom had also served at the Walker AFB hospital. At various times in the ensuing years. Dr Nordstrom and I reminisced about our service at Walker AFB. During these conversations Dr Nordstrom never mentioned any activities during his tour of duty I considered unusual or that might explain reports of bodies or aliens. During the time I was stationed at Walker AFB, I did not witness, nor did I hear rumors, of anything that involved flying saucers, aliens, or anything else of an extraterrestrial nature.

I am not part of a conspiracy to withhold information from either the US government or the American public. There is no classified information that I am withholding related to this inquiry, and I have not been threatened by US government persons concerning not talking about this matter.

SIGNED: Subscribed and sworn before a person authorized to administer oaths this 26th day of April 1996 at Farmington, NM

[Signature] [Signature] Charles E. Clouthier James McAndrew, Capt, USAFR

WITNESS: [Signature]

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 25 May 95

I, Charles A. Coltman, Jr., Col, USAF, MC (Ret), hereby state that James McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR, on this date at my place of employment and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I entered the U.S. Air Force in 1957 as a flight surgeon and was assigned to Walker AFB, NM, in 1958. Following a residency at Ohio State University from 1959 to 1963, I was assigned to Wilford Hall USAF Medical Center, Lackland AFB, TX, where I eventually became the Chairman of the Department of Medicine. I retired from the Air Force in 1977. I am presently a Professor at The University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, and Chief Executive Officer of the Cancer Therapy and Research Foundation of South Texas.

I remember a balloon crash that happened north of Roswell, NM, in May, 1959. I received a phone call from the NCOIC of the Flight Surgeon’s office, who informed me of the crash. The NCOIC, Earl Wormwood, came to my quarters and we drove, in an old blue Air Force “crackerbox” ambulance, to the crash site. I remember the gondola laying on its side and the deflated balloon on the ground. The crew members were sitting next to the gondola. I examined the pilots and determined they were not seriously injured. They told me they were practicing touch-and-go’s and a gust of wind had dumped them on the ground, and the gondola had struck one of the pilots in the head. Also present were Air Force technicians in trucks who tracked the balloon. The injured pilots were transported to the Flight Surgeon’s office at the hospital at Walker AFB.

The injury sustained by the crew member was a head abrasion/contusion and a hemotoma. The hemotoma caused the patient’s head to swell, however, it was not serious enough for him to be admitted. I remember receiving a call from Col (Dr.) John Stapp. He was in charge of the balloon project and was quite famous. Dr Stapp inquired about the injuries to the pilots and he wanted them returned to Holloman AFB as quickly as possible.

The hospital was an old World War II cantonment-type building with long corridors and a capacity of fifty beds. I do not recall a nurse assisting me in the treatment of the patient, although a nurse may have been on duty and observed the patient. I was the only doctor in the hospital that morning. There were no visiting doctors from other bases or facilities. I do not remember any altercations or arguments that day. During my time at Walker, I do not recall that any autopsies were performed at the hospital, since we did not have a pathologist on staff. I do not recall any remains brought to the hospital in body bags, or wreckage transported in the back of an ambulance. There may have been remains brought to the hospital in body bags after a KC-97 crash, but that was before I arrived at Walker. Dr Ed Bradley was involved in the recovery of the remains.

At no time was there ever any involvement of the Walker hospital with UFO’s or “space aliens” I know this to be true because the hospital was very small and had a small staff. If any activity, other than normal hospital functions, had occurred, I would have known about it.

I am not part of any conspiracy to withhold or provide misleading information to the United States Government or the American public. There is no classified information that I am withholding related to this inquiry and I have never been threatened by U.S. Government persons concerning refraining from talking about this matter.

SIGNED: Sworn to and subscribed before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995, at

[Signature] [Signature] Charles A. Coltman, Jr., M.D. James McAndrew, 1st Lt, USAFR

WITNESS(s): [Signature]

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 25 May 95

I, Dan D. Fulgham, Col, USAF (Ret), hereby state that James McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my place of employment and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I entered the U.S. Air Force in 1952 as an aviation cadet. I flew F-84s on 100 combat missions during the Korean war. After a tour as a flight instructor I was assigned to the Aero Medical Laboratory at Wright Patterson. I participated in both the Air Force Man in Space program and Project Mercury. I also participated in the X-15 and X-20 programs and worked as a bioastronautics officer with NASA on Gemini. During my Air Force career, I earned both a Master’s and Doctorate degree from Purdue University. I flew a combat tour in Southeast Asia in F-4s as a member of the 555th Tactical Fighter Squadron and flew 133 combat missions. I retired from the Air Force in 1978 as the Commander of the Human Resources Laboratory at Brooks AFB, TX. I am presently the Director Of Biosciences for a research organization in San Antonio, TX.

In 1959 I volunteered for training to become a back up pilot for Capt Joe Kittenger in his high altitude balloon projects. I flew two missions for training purposes with Capt Kittenger and Capt Bill Kaufman from Holloman AFB, NM in May, 1959. On the second flight we were practicing touch and go landings north of Roswell, NM when we “crashed” on one of the landings. The gondola flipped over and my head was pinned to the ground by the lip of the gondola. We managed to lift the gondola off of my head and looked it over for damage. Capt Kittenger was bleeding from a cut on his face and I noticed that my head seemed to be protruding outward from underneath my helmet. Realizing I was injured, I sat down and feared I might go into shock. I was not in pain but my entire head was throbbing and began to swell.

I then remember boarding the “chase” helicopter that was following us and flying a short distance to Walker AFB for medical treatment. I recall walking into the hospital and also stopping on the front step to smoke a cigarette. I remember security personnel escorting and questioning us to determine who we were. Security was very tight at Strategic Air Command bases such as Walker. On occasion surprise inspection teams from SAC headquarters arrived in helicopters just as we did. In addition, a story of three Air Force officers crashing in a balloon was somewhat far fetched. The security people were convinced of our identities when they spoke with Col John P. Stapp, the Aero Medical Laboratory Commander.

While I was at Walker my head had swelled considerably and both eyes were turning black. Later the skin on my face turned yellow. I remember being seen by one doctor and I do not believe any other doctors participated in my treatment. I do not recall any nurses attending to me. I also do not recall that a black NCO was present nor do I recall any civilian men in the hospital. I do not recall that Capt Kittenger was involved in an altercation of any kind while we were there. After I was treated and released we all flew back to Holloman on the helicopter.

At Holloman I was admitted to the hospital and had blood aspirated from under my scalp. I remember my forehead drooping down, I had to use my fingers to open my eyelids, and I had to sleep sitting up. Several days later I returned to Wright Patterson with Capt Kittenger and Capt Kaufman. My wife met the airplane and when she saw me, she burst into tears due to the swelling of my head, the two black eyes, and the yellow color of my skin. When I returned to my office at Wright Patterson, my secretary also began to cry when she saw me. After some weeks my head returned to normal size and I was returned to flying status.

During my Air Force career I was involved in many different scientific research projects including the space program. I can state with certainty that none of them, including the incident described here, had anything to do with UFOs or “space aliens”.

SIGNED: Subscribed and sworn before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995, at

[Signature] [Signature] Dan D. Fulgham, Col, USAF (Ret) James McAndrew, 1st Lt, USAFR

WITNESS(s): [Signature]

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 28 May 95

I, Bernard D. Gildenberg, GS-14, (Ret), hereby state that James McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my home and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I became involved in high altitude balloon development while an undergraduate student at New York University (NYU). Following graduation I was hired by the Air Force at Holloman AFB and worked continuously as both a meteorologist and aerospace engineer at the Balloon Branch from 1951 until my retirement in 1981. My job responsibilities were to forecast the weather and fly by remote control, high altitude balloons for many different scientific projects. During this time. I became internationally recognized as an authority on high altitude balloon trajectory forecasting. I have published numerous technical reports and articles.

The first project in which I was involved, while still an undergraduate student at NYU, was the acoustical detection of nuclear explosions. The name of the project, Mogul, was classified and I didn’t know this name until several years ago. Based on my experience with this project I am certain project Mogul was responsible for some portions of what has become to be known as the “Roswell Incident”.

Following project Mogul I was involved in perfecting high altitude balloon technology and made many test flights with large polyethylene balloons from Holloman AFB. I worked extensively on atmospheric sampling projects and biological flights in which the balloons lifted small animals to altitude for cosmic ray experiments. I also worked on the Moby Dick Project that collected meteorological data and the classified Gopher (119L) reconnaissance project.

I was relied upon to forecast the weather, conduct climatological studies, predict balloon trajectories, and to hit with precision, ground targets both on and off the White Sands Missile Range. Balloon trajectories in New Mexico below the tropopause, are predominantly towards the east-northeast, when launched from Holloman AFB with the exception of July and August when balloons remained over the Holloman area. At high altitude, above the tropopause, trajectories are generally westerly during the summer and easterly during the spring, fall, and winter. As a result these winds, the Holloman balloon branch recovered many, probably hundreds, of balloons and scientific payloads from the Roswell, NM area over the years.

During the time of the year when trajectories were to the east I attempted to drop the equipment near accessible non mountainous areas and paved roads. The main target area was the first large north-south road on the other side of the Sacramento Mountains from Holloman AFB, Highway 285. This road goes north and south through Roswell. The standard procedure was to preposition military recovery crews near the projected point of payload impact. The crews consisted primarily of Air Force members in uniform and they operated military vehicles. I often directed these crews to “standby” along the shoulder of Highway 285, both north and south of Roswell until the balloon was in position. The recovery crews received detailed instructions from the tracking aircraft that led them to the exact location of the payload. The recovery vehicle included, depending on the mission, a crane, weapons carriers, communications van, and occasionally tanker trucks to refuel the aircraft that would sometimes land on nearby roads.

During the time of the year when balloon trajectories were to the west, I attempted to drop the payloads in the Rio Grande Valley. I also aimed for another valley, the flat area north of Truth or Consequences that includes the Plains of San Augustin. In addition, many remote balloon launch sites were located throughout the Rio Grande Valley west of the White Sands Proving Grounds. Launch crews were also mostly military and used much of the same equipment as the recovery crews.

I had extensive involvement with Project 7218 that later became Project 7222. This project studied the free-fall characteristics of anthropomorphic dummies dropped from balloons from altitudes up to 100,000 feet. The missions usually consisted of two dummies attached to a suspension rack that I directed to be released at altitude. Depending on the wind conditions and time of year, the dummies, on many occasions, landed in the Roswell area. I recall some difficulties in the release mechanisms of the dummies that resulted in some of them free-falling to the ground while they were still attached to the rack. Someone without a good vantage point or not associated with the project might mistake these dummies for “aliens” due to their odd flesh tones and abstract human features.

I also recall an accident involving a manned balloon flight. I remember this event clearly because I am also a balloon pilot and had an accident approximately two years before. The accident occurred on a flight that Capt Joe Kittenger was “checking out” two back up pilots for his high altitude missions. The balloon was launched around midnight from behind the Balloon Branch at Holloman AFB. I remember that some of the steel ballast used by the balloon caused a “fireworks” display when it contacted some nearby power lines during the launch. I was operating the control center for this flight and I received notification from the communications vehicle that was following the balloon that there had been an accident north of Roswell. I later learned that the gondola had rolled over during a practice touch and go landing and one of the pilots had been struck in the head and injured. I recall speaking to Capt Kittinger about the accident and I saw the injured pilot. Although his injury was not serious, his head had considerable swelling and he looked very odd.

I also worked with Capt Kittinger on Project Stargazer. I also had met several times the civilian scientific advisor Dr. J. Allen Hynek. Dr Hynek was thoroughly familiar with the balloon operations at Holloman and visited the Balloon Branch numerous times. This project experienced some difficulties and only one manned flight was conducted.

Another project I was involved with was the Air Force investigations of UFOs. Project Bluebook. Since I was a meteorologist and amateur astronomer I evaluated, starting in 1951, local sightings of UFOs. New Mexico had alot of sightings because of the good visibility and the many experimental projects of the White Sands Proving Grounds. During my time on Project Bluebook there wasn’t any sightings that we could not explain. Nevertheless popular literature still refers to some of these sightings as unexplained.

Another project with which I was involved, was the NASA Voyager and Viking Projects. These space vehicles were tested by launching them from our balloons at extremely high altitude to simulate the atmosphere of Venus and Mars. To utilize the instrumentation on the White Sands Missile Range I elected to launch the balloons and attached space vehicles from the Roswell Industrial Air Center, formerly the Roswell Army Airfield. The Holloman Balloon Branch made approximately eight launches of these two vehicles from Roswell. In appearance the Viking and Voyager probes could be mistaken for a flying saucer. They were both unclassified highly publicized projects and I do not recall getting any UFO reports for these flights. I believe one of these probes is on display at White Sands Missile Range and its known as the “flying saucer”.

SIGNED: Subscribed and sworn before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995, at

[Signature] [Signature] Bernard D. Gildenberg, GS-14 (Ret) James McAndrew, 1st Lt. USAFR

WITNESS(s):

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 28 May 95

I, Ole Jorgeson, MSgt. USAF, (Ret), hereby state that James McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my home and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I enlisted in the U.S. Air Force in 1957 and became a Ground Communications and Electronic Repairman. I remained in this career field throughout my career. I completed three tours at the Balloon Branch at Holloman AFB, NM. I retired from the Air Force in 1977 as the NCOIC of the Communication and Instrumentation Section of the Balloon Branch at Holloman AFB.

I recall an overnight balloon training mission that was conducted in May, 1959. Capt Joe Kittinger was training back up pilots for one of his upcoming projects. I was an airman assigned to coordinate communications and to assist in the recovery of the balloon upon completion of the mission. I followed the balloon in an old Korean War vintage “crackerbox” ambulance that had been converted into a communications van. Another airman and I followed the balloon throughout the night on an easterly trajectory over the Sacramento Mountains to an area north of Roswell. Also following the balloon were recovery technicians in a weapons carrier. We stayed in contact with the balloon crew by radio and also observed flares the crew would light at various intervals so we could visually track them. Just after sunrise I recall the balloon landing north of Roswell and Capt Kittinger offered me some coffee and told me he was going to make one more touch and go landing to complete the mission. I remember that I took some photographs of the balloon and waited for the last landing. Several minutes later I remember hearing a “bang”, this was the squib that fired to release the gondola from the balloon. We immediately went to where the gondola landed and saw the gondola laying on its side and saw two of the pilots standing and one lying down. Lying on the ground was a shattered helmet that was worn by one of the pilots. Capt Kittinger told me they were attempting to land to avoid some power lines and a row of trees.

Soon after I arrived at the crash site, a helicopter that was also following the flight landed and transported the three aircrew members to Walker AFB for medical attention. I recall I assisted the recovery technicians load the balloon and the gondola on the weapons carrier and then drove 15 to 20 minutes to the hospital at Walker AFB. When I arrived at Walker, we parked the converted ambulance near the hospital and either the other airman with me or the recovery technicians called the balloon control center to notify them of the accident. I recall waiting near the hospital for a short period of time and then returning to Holloman AFB. During the time I was waiting at the hospital I did not observe any arguments or altercations. I did not observe Capt Kittinger speaking disrespectfully to anyone. I also do not recall any male civilians or any vehicles that belonged to a mortuary.

I participated in many, probably more than 100, balloon recoveries. I often recovered payloads and balloons from the area surrounding Roswell, NM. It was routine to be directed by the balloon control center to an area near Roswell to wait to recover a balloon. We would wait along the side of the road, at small airports, or at the armory in Roswell. It would not be uncommon for our recovery vehicles to be seen waiting to recover balloons throughout New Mexico, Arizona, and West Texas. When we recovered the balloons and payloads sometimes civilians would be in the area and make inquires. We would tell them what we were doing and provide them with a telephone number at Holloman AFB if they wanted to report any damages. We were required to clean up the area and remove all debris before we left. In addition to the recoveries, I recall making balloon launches from sites up and down the Rio Grande Valley. I remember that some of these launches were made from an area west of Soccoro, NM.

Another project I participated in was the testing of the Viking space probe in 1972. These four launches were all made from the Roswell Industrial Air Center, the former Roswell Army Airfield. Approximately twenty Air Force personnel were on temporary duty to Roswell throughout the summer of 1972 to support this project. NASA personnel prepared the spacecraft for launch from the old hangers of the former Air Force base. This project was not classified and was covered by the news media.

SIGNED: Subscribed and sworn before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995, at

[Signature] [Signature] Ole Jorgesen, MSgt, USAF, (Ret) James McAndrew, 1st Lt, USAFR

WITNESS(s):

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 28 October 1996

I, William C. Kaufman, Lt. Col., USAF (Ret), hereby voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I was drafted into the Army of the United States in 1943, transferred to the Army Air Forces, and was commissioned as a pilot in 1944. From 1950 until 1967, with a break for training for a combat tour in Korea and for educational assignments to AFIT, I was assigned to the Aero Medical Laboratory at Wright Patterson AFB, OH. During that time I was a physiological training officer and worked in the development of early pressure suits. I tested many high altitude pilots and also the first group of astronauts. Later during my Air Force career, in 1961, I earned a Ph.D. in Physiology and Biophysics. I was assigned to the Aero Medical Laboratory for three tours and retired in 1968 as the Chief of the Biodynamics Branch of the Aero Medical Field Laboratory at Holloman AFB, NM.

During my third assignment at Wright Patterson, I volunteered, along with Capt Dan Fulgham, to be a backup pilot for Capt Joe Kittinger for his high altitude balloon project, Project Excelsior. Capt Kittinger instructed Capt Fulgham and me in ballooning in May 1959. At the end of an overnight training flight, on the morning of May 21, 1959, northwest of Roswell, NM, we (Kittinger, Fulgham and I) had an accident with the balloon. We were practicing touch and go landings when a severe gust of wind overturned the gondola, dumping all of us to the ground with the gondola on top of us. The accident occurred in a small pasture where a pony was grazing next to a small cottage. For safety, we were followed during hours of darkness by a C-131 aircraft and during the day by a H-21 helicopter. We were followed the entire time by technicians in a truck for communications and for the recovery of the balloon and gondola. Seeing the accident, the crews of the helicopter and the recovery trucks came to our assistance, much to the dismay of the farmer who owned the pony, which had run away when the truck broke down the fence to reach the crash site. I recall that a member of the helicopter crew attempted to calm the farmer.

Capt Fulgham sustained an injury to the forehead when the lip of the gondola struck him. Capt Fulgham thought he had fractured his skull but the experimental helmet he was wearing apparently protected him. Capt Kittinger was bleeding from a cut on the face. I was beneath Fulgham and Kittinger and unhurt. Fulgham was loaded into the helicopter and we were taken to the nearest hospital, at Walker AFB, in Roswell. I recall the helicopter pilot called the air traffic control tower at Walker and informed them we were inbound with an injured pilot from a balloon accident. This was quite unusual and I believe the tower personnel might have thought we were a surprise Strategic Air Command inspection team that at the direction of the SAC Commander, Gen. Curtis E. LeMay, sometimes made unannounced visits by helicopter. We landed in front of the tower and were met by an ambulance along with a detail of military police with machine guns. The military police escorted us to the hospital for treatment and to verify our story of the balloon crash.

While Capt Fulgham and Capt Kittinger were being treated I was asked to explain to the Walker AFB Base Commander what had happened. After Capt Kittinger was treated he called Col Stapp from a phone adjacent to the waiting room were numerous military wives were waiting for pre-natal care. Capt Kittinger, as the project officer, was concerned what effect this accident might have on the future of his program. As we waited for Fulgham, Kittinger paced up and down the hall concerned about Fulgham and getting out of the hospital before Walker AFB officials might complicate matters. I do not recall any male civilians in the hospital, nor do I recall Capt Kittinger being involved in an altercation of any kind. Capt Kittinger did not shout or use obscene language, he was simply interested in getting medical attention for Fulgham and leaving as soon as possible. I do recall that one or two nurses were present. I do not recall a black NCO accompanying Kittinger while we were in the hospital.

When the medical personnel were finished treating Fulgham, all three of us returned to Holloman AFB by helicopter about noon the same day. The following day I took my FAA exam and was awarded a balloon pilot license. Three days later, on Sunday, Kittinger, Fulgham and I returned to Wright Patterson via a special C-131 flight. Fulgham looked very odd with two black eyes and protruding forehead; his head was so swollen he could not wear his uniform hat for some time. I later worked with Capt Kittinger on the Stargazer project and and occasionally flew aircraft with him.

During my entire time at the Aero Medical Laboratory I neither saw nor heard anything that would lead me to believe that the Air Force was keeping “aliens” at Wright Patterson. I knew there was a project on UFOs called Bluebook, at the base, but to my knowledge the Aero Medical Laboratory was not involved. Many scientific accomplishments came out of the various laboratories at Wright Patterson but I am unaware of any that might have involved aliens or UFOs.

This is as I recollect those events.

SIGNED:

[Signature] William C. Kaufman, LtCol. USAFC (Ret)

WITNESS(s): [Signature: Patricia A. Kaufman]

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 24 June 95

I, Joseph W. Kittinger. Jr., Col. USAF (Ret), hereby state that James McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my home and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I entered the U.S. Air Force in 1949 as an Aviation Cadet. From 1950 to 1953 I flew fighters in Europe before being assigned to the Fighter Test Section at Holloman AFB, NM in July, 1953. During my tour as a test pilot I conducted the first zero gravity tests and was the balloon pilot of the first Project Man High high altitude research mission. In 1958 I was assigned to the Escape Section of the Aero Medical laboratory at Wright Patterson AFB, OH. During this tour I was the Project Officer of Project Excelsior and made three high altitude parachute jumps, the highest from 102,800 feet, which today remains a world record. For these jumps I was awarded the Hannon Trophy for 1960 by President Eisenhower. Following Excelsior, I was the Project Officer of Stargazer, a project that made astronomical observations from a high altitude balloon. I flew two combat tours in Southeast Asia with the Air Commandos. I later flew a tour in F-4s and was the Squadron Commander of the 555 Tactical Fighter Squadron. I accumulated over 1,000 combat flying hours and I am credited with one aerial victory. I spent ten months as a POW in Hanoi. Upon my return I attended Air War College, flew F-4s and retired from the Air Force in 1978. In 1984 I became the first person to make a solo crossing of the Atlantic by balloon.

In 1958 I was made the Project Officer of Excelsior by Col John Paul Stapp, the Aero Medical Laboratory Commander. I supervised and was actively involved in the dropping and recovery of anthropomorphic dummies from high altitude balloons at Holloman AFB, NM for this project. We also dropped dummies, from aircraft only, at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH. The object of the Holloman tests were to study the free fall characteristics of dummies dropped from balloons at altitudes of 50,000 to 100,000 feet. Based on this data we designed a parachute that stabilized the dummies and I later used this parachute on my three high altitude jumps.

The balloons carrying the dummies were launched from various locations in New Mexico and often impacted off of the White Sands Proving Ground depending on the wind conditions. The dummies were outfitted with clothing and equipment of an Air Force pilot. The facial features of the dummies were not as pronounced as a human. The ears and noses did not protrude. I do not recall any dummies with ears or noses. Some of the dummies were not complete; they sometimes did not have arms or legs. To someone not associated with the project or who viewed the dummies from a distance, they could appear to be human or with some imagination a space “alien.” In fact, I recall one incident at Wright-Patterson where one of our dummies landed near the backyard of Gen. Rawlings, Commander of the Air Research and Development Command. Gen. Rawling’s wife was entertaining officer’s wives that afternoon when one of our dummy’s parachute failed to deploy and impacted the ground in full view of the ladies at Gen. Rawling’s home. I acted quickly to retrieve the dummy and went to the impact site and recovered it by throwing it in the back of a pickup truck and quickly driving away. Later that day I received a call from Col Stapp who informed me that some of the women at the party believed that the dummy was a human and they were appalled to see the careless nature in which the obviously dead or injured “parachutist” was hauled away.

At Holloman AFB recoveries of the dummies were handled by the Balloon Branch but members of my project team, including myself, often assisted. The standard procedure was to track the dummy both from the ground and air to attempt to recover the dummies in a timely manner. On the ground we used an assortment of Air Force vehicles to track and recover not only the dummies but also other scientific balloon payloads. We used trucks, communications vans, converted field ambulances, cranes, and trailers. In the air we used helicopters, C-47s transports, and L-19 and L-20 light observation aircraft. On occasion civilians would observe our recovery operations. We often attracted a crowd due to the odd appearance of the balloon payloads and dummies and also the aircraft that circled overhead or landed on nearby roads. We also used many of the same procedures and equipment to launch from off range locations. During the recoveries weapons were not carried because there was no classified information or equipment. I do not recall any altercations of any kind. At no time did I or any of the personnel makes threats against civilians. We always attempted to maintain good relations with the local civilians and explained the purpose of the project to them if they asked. We were directed to remove as much of the material dropped by the balloon as possible. Sometimes this was difficult because the balloon and pay load would break apart and cover a large area. We collected the debris in these cases by “fanning out” across a field until we had collected even very small portions of the payload and balloon. We were

## particularly careful to recover the large plastic balloons because

cattle would ingest the material and the ranchers would file claims against the government. Additionally, there were reward notices that offered twenty five dollars for the return of the equipment attached to each of the balloons. I wrote a book, _The Long, Lonely Leap_ (E. P. Dutton & Co., 1961), that completely describes Project Excelsior and my participation.

Also as a part of the high altitude balloon projects, I trained balloon pilots in May 1959 at the request of Col Stapp. Col Stapp was concerned that I might be injured as a result of the hazardous nature of the projects and he wanted backup pilots to be trained. The backup pilots, Capt Dan Fulgham and Capt Bill Kaufman were volunteers from the Aero Medical Laboratory and they were sent to Holloman from Wright-Patterson for training on a temporary duty basis. On our second training flight, Fulgham, Kaufman and I, flew an overnight mission that was launched at Holloman and ended with a crash northwest of Roswell, NM. We were followed on this mission by an aircraft at night, a helicopter during the day, and a ground crew in trucks at all times.

I recall that just after sunrise the weather had deteriorated and I directed Fulgham to land the balloon in a small field. This was the last suitable field before we would overfly the City of Roswell. I remember approaching the field just over the trees and I recall our forward velocity was about 10–12 knots, a little fast for landing. When we touched down Fulgham cut the balloon away and due to the forward velocity the gondola flipped over spilling all three of us on the ground. While lying on the ground I realized that Fulgham was injured and Kaufman and I raised the gondola. Fulgham had been struck in the head by the edge of the gondola and I could see the blood rapidly accumulating under his scalp in the forehead area. We treated him for shock and soon the recovery vehicles and the chase helicopter arrived. I decided to transport Fulgham by helicopter to the hospital at nearby Walker AFB.

When we arrived at Walker I remember that security was tight, as it was at all Strategic Air Command bases, and we were closely scrutinized by security personnel due to the unusual circumstances and early hour of our arrival. I had two concerns once we arrived at the hospital, first to get treatment for Fulgham and second to leave as soon as possible. After I was assured that Fulgham’s injuries were not serious I wanted to quickly leave the base before the Walker AFB Flying Safety Officer arrived to fill out an accident report. I didn’t want a report filed because an accident investigation would bring unwanted scrutiny to the project. Even though the project was unclassified I did not want any publicity or premature releases of information.

Although Fulgham’s injuries were not serious, his head had swollen considerably—both eyes were black and his face had swollen so much you could barely see his nose. I believe that if someone saw him while we were at Walker they would have been startled. When his treatment was completed we all three returned to Holloman on the helicopter. At Holloman, Fulgham was admitted to the hospital and I made preparations for him to return to his duty station at Wright-Patterson AFB. Due to his grotesque appearance, I did not want Fulgham to fly on a commercial airline. I made arrangements for all of us to fly to Wright-Patterson on a C-131 a few days later. When we arrived at Wright-Patterson, I assisted Fulgham down the steps of the aircraft because his eyes were swollen shut and he could not see. His wife was waiting at the bottom of the steps of the aircraft and she asked me where her husband was. I replied “this is your husband” and she screamed and began to cry.

While I was at the Walker AFB hospital, I do not recall any contact with a male civilian. I certainly did not call anyone an “SOB” or speak to anyone in a disrespectful manner. I did not make any threats or instruct anyone else to make threats. I recall nurses in the hospital but I am not certain if they participated in the treatment of Capt Fulgham. I was not accompanied by a black NCO at the hospital, but there may have been a black NCO on the balloon recovery team. I recall no body bags in the hospital and I am sure there were no “aliens” at the hospital, just Dan Fulgham with a very odd looking head injury.

I was also involved in the joint Air Force, Navy, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology astronomical observation project, Project Stargazer. The object of this project was to make observations via a stabilized telescope mounted atop of a gondola suspended from a high altitude balloon. I was the USAF project officer and Dr J. Allen Hynek was the scientific advisor. I worked very closely with Dr Hynek over a period of five years from 1958 to 1963. Dr Hynek would typically spend a half day working on Stargazer and then the rest of the day participating as one of the consultants on the UFO study, Project Bluebook, that was also conducted at Wright-Patterson AFB. Dr Hynek, as the scientific advisor to Stargazer, was very familiar with the techniques and capabilities of the Air Force high altitude balloon program. Dr Hynek once approached me and we discussed at length, the possibility that Air Force high altitude balloons were responsible for many UFO sightings. We ended the conversation in agreement that the balloons probably accounted for many of the UFO sightings. In other conversations Dr Hynek always gave me the impression that there were very few UFO sightings that could not be explained by good scientific investigation. At no time did Dr Hynek mention or discuss the alleged “Roswell Incident”. I was therefore “flabbergasted” when Dr Hynek appeared to believe that some of these sightings were of an extraterrestrial origin.

SIGNED: Sworn to and subscribed before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995, at

[Signature] [Signature] Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., Col, USAF (Ret) James McAndrew, 1st Lt. USAFR

WITNESS(s):

[Signature: Sherry Kittinger]

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 31 May 95

I, Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt, USAF, (Ret), hereby state that James McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my home and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1947 and transferred to the U.S. Air Force in 1958. In June, 1958 I was assigned to the flight surgeon’s office at Holloman AFB, NM as an Aero Medical Technician. I served several tours in Southeast Asia and retired from the Air Force in 1974 as an Aero Medical Superintendent.

On May 20–21, 1959 I was assigned to provide medical coverage for a balloon training mission that took off from Holloman AFB and ended with a crash near Roswell, NM. Capt Joe Kittinger was training two other pilots, Capt Fulgham and Capt Kaufman. I followed the balloon in an ambulance during the night and at daybreak I followed the balloon in an H-21 helicopter. Just after daybreak I saw the balloon crash and the three pilots were dumped form the gondola. I immediately informed the helicopter pilot and we landed in a field on which cattle were grazing. I recall the rancher was upset because the helicopter was frightening his cattle and some cattle had gotten out of the field.

I assesed the injuries to the pilots and recommended they be taken immediately to the closest hospital which was at Walker AFB, apprximately 5 to 10 minutes away by helicopter. Capt Fulgham’s head was swelling due to a hemotoma he received when the gondola struck him. Capt Kittinger was cut on the face and was bleeding. Capt Kaufman was uninjured. At Walker I remember a telephone conversation with a flight surgeon who told me to “go home and sleep it off”. He apparently did not believe my story of three Air Force pilots that were victims of a balloon crash. However, I was able to convince him and he treated Capt Fulgham and Capt Kittinger. While at the hospital Capt Fulgham’s head had swelled enormously and his eyes were beginning to turn black.

I do not recall that anything unusual occurred at the hospital at Walker. I remember the three pilots sitting on a bench in the hallway waiting to be treated. I do not remember that Capt Kittinger was involved in an altercation with anyone while at the hospital, if he had, I would have known about it. Capt Kittinger was concerned with getting medical treatment for his injured crew member, Capt Fulgham, and returning to Holloman. I also do not recall a black NCO accompanying Capt Kittinger while we were at the hospital. I do not remember a nurse assisting in the treatment of Capt Fulgham or Capt Kittinger. I also do not remember a male civilian or any personnel or vehicles from a mortuary, and I do not recall any remains in body bags in the hospital.

I was present the entire time when the events described here took place. I am certain that this event had nothing to do with “space aliens” or any other irregular activity that would require a cover up. It was a balloon crash and nothing else.

SIGNED: Subscribed and sworn before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995, at

[Signature] [Signature] Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt, USAF, James McAndrew, 1st Lt, USAFR (Ret)

WITNESS(s):

[Signature] Harry C. Aderholt, Brig. Gen., USAF (Ret)

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Place Date: 20 June 95

I, Raymond A. Madson, Lt Col, USAF (Ret), hereby state that James McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my place of employment and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I was born, raised, and presently reside in New Mexico. I graduated from New Mexico A&M College in 1954. I entered the Air Force in 1955 and was assigned a short time later to the Aero Medical Laboratory at Wright Patterson AFB, OH. At the Aero Medical Laboratory I was assigned to the Escape Section as a project officer and test parachutist. During this time I also had extensive

## participation in various aspects of the space program and worked

on the highly classified U-2 project. I served a tour of duty in Alaska and at the School of Aerospace Medicine at Brooks AFB, TX, before being reassigned to the Aero Medical Laboratory at Wright Patterson. I retired in from the Air Force in 1979 and I am currently and Environmental Specialist for the State of New Mexico.

The first project that I was assigned at Wright Patterson was Project 7218, later changed to Project 7222. This project was first known by the name High Dive and then was known as Excelsior. The object of this project was to study the free fall characteristics of anthropomorphic dummies from balloons at altitudes of 50,000 to 100,000 feet. Following satisfactory dummy drops, Capt Joe Kittinger made a series of high altitude parachute jumps that culminated with a jump from 102,800 feet.

I assumed the duties of Project Officer for the dummy drops in the spring of 1956. I made numerous trips to Holloman AFB, NM, the site of the drops, from 1956 until the end of the project in 1959 (dummies were also dropped for this project at Wright Patterson AFB by personnel from the Parachute Branch). I wrote two technical reports that described the project in considerable detail. The type of anthropomorphic dummy used primarily was manufactured by Alderson Laboratories but we also used Sierra Manufacturing type dummies. Both of these dummies are shown in the technical reports. The Alderson dummy had facial features that were not life-like and ears that were not well defined. The dummies were outfitted with flight suits of various colors, fuchsia, olive drab, and sage green (a shade of gray). We chose the Alderson dummy because it was relatively inexpensive as compared to the Sierra dummy.

We encountered considerable difficulty dropping the dummies from the balloons. I designed the rack that suspended the dummies, two at a time, from the balloon. On numerous occasions the dummies were fouled during the release sequence and the dummy rode a “streamer” all the way to the ground. Other times malfunctions occurred that caused the two dummies and the entire rack assembly to descend to the ground as one package. Both of these instances are described in the technical reports.

I participated in at least two dummy recoveries. The meteorologist from the Balloon Branch, Duke Gildenberg, would determine the best place to launch the balloons depending on the prevailing weather conditions. Duke also predicted, with considerable accuracy, where the dummies would impact. I specifically recall a dummy I recovered near the Jornada test range, between Leasburg and Organ, NM. During this recovery I drove a weapons carrier and I was only able to locate one of the dummies. I never found out what happened to the other one. The next recovery I remember was on a ranch just southwest of Roswell. We were given directions to the area by the balloon branch personnel who had been contacted by a rancher. The equipment had reward notices taped to them to aid in recovery. We went to the Smith ranch. I remember the name because I went to New Mexico A&M with the rancher. I knew him as Smitty. We searched that day from horseback and could not find the dummies. The following day we resumed our search from horseback and again could not find the dummies. I also recall that Smitty asked us for some of the parachute material so he could make a shirt. We dropped many dummies from the balloons and I know many were not immediately recovered, but most were.

I served for twenty five years in the Air Force and most of those years were in the aero medical field. I participated in the space program and the highly classified early stages of U-2 program. Never during this time were “aliens” or “flying saucers” a part of any project. There were, however, countless achievements by the Air Force in aerospace medicine that were the result of dedicated scientific research. It seems likely to me that someone could have mistaken our anthropomorphic dummies for something that they were not.

SIGNED: Sworn to and subscribed before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995, at

[Signature] [Signature] Raymond A. Madson, Lt Col, James McAndrew, 1st Lt, USAFR USAF (Ret)

WITNESS(s):

STATEMENT OF WITNESS

Date: 25 April 1996 Place: Aztec, NM

I Frank B. Nordstrom, M. D., hereby state that James McAndrew, was identified as a Captain, USAFR on this date at my home and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following statement. This was done without having been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.

I was on active duty in the US Air Force and stationed at Walker AFB, Roswell, NM from July 1951 until June 1953. During that time I was a pediatrician assigned to the base hospital. Following my tour of duty with the Air Force I attended the University of Colorado as a resident in pediatrics. In July 1954 I relocated to Farmington, NM and began a private pediatric practice. I retired from private practice in 1987 and became the Medical Director of the San Juan Regional Medical Center, which is also located in Farmington, NM. In 1989 I retired from that position and presently reside in Aztec, NM.

I have been shown two transcripts of interviews where an individual named Glenn Dennis described conversations and visits he claims he had with a pediatrician in the late 1940s or early 1950s in Farmington, NM. According to these interviews, Mr Dennis also claims that this pediatrician had previously served at the hospital at Walker AFB/Roswell AAF. Since I am the only physician in Farmington, NM who previously served at the Walker AFB/Roswell AAF hospital, I believe I am the person he is referring to in these interviews. I am confident of this because I know I was the first pediatrician to practice in Farmington, which when I arrived in 1954, was a small community of approximately 8,000 people. I remained the sole pediatrician there for approximately 20 years and I know most, if not all, of the physicians in the area.

Even though I believe I am the person Mr Dennis referred to in the interviews, I do not remember him. I can state with reasonable certainty that I cannot recall any conversations with him, and he, to my knowledge, never visited me in Farmington, NM, in Colorado, or anyplace else. I have been told, however, that a person named Glenn Dennis operated a drugstore in the late 1950s-early 1960s, just outside Farmington, in Aztec, NM. But I do not recall any contact with him there either.

While I was stationed at Walker AFB, I do not recall any incidents that may explain the information Mr Dennis provided in the interviews. To my knowledge there was only one fatal aircraft accident during my tour of duty and that accident involved a Walker AFB based aircraft in the United Kingdom. I was not involved in any aspect of that accident. I also do not recall any other incidents such as automobile accidents or house fires that may be the source of this information. Nor do I recall a nurse named Lt Naiomi Selff or a nurse named Capt “Slats” Wilson. While at Walker AFB I did not witness or hear rumors of anything that involved flying saucers, aliens, or anything else of an extraterrestrial nature.

I am not part of a conspiracy to withhold information from either the US government or the American public, there is no classified information that I am withholding related to this inquiry and I have not been threatened by US government persons concerning not talking about this matter.

SIGNED: Sworn to and subscribed before me, an individual authorized to administer oaths, this 25th day of April 1996 at Aztec, NM

[Signature] [Signature] Frank B. Nordstrom, M.D. James McAndrew, Capt, USAFR

WITNESS:

Appendix C

Transcript of Interview with Gerald Anderson[*] Alleged firsthand witness to “Crash Site” Two (allegedly 175 miles northwest of Roswell)

[*] Excerpted from raw footage used to prepare the video, _Recollections of Roswell Part II_, (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO Research, 1993).

A: We drove down to the Plains of San Agustin which is west of Socorro, New Mexico in the Magdalena, Datil, area. We were down there looking for banded and moss agate, which according to my uncle Ted and my cousin Victor was prevalent in the area. My brother being an amateur rock hound had wanted to get some of this. That was a way of showing us around the area. They had relatives down in Magdalena that they wanted to introduce us to.

So we had gone down there and we got down in the Horse Springs area and had driven off onto the plains down an old rutted road for, oh, a mile or so and it seemed like a long ways. We parked the car, got out of the car and walked down a hillside.

There’s a semi-forest, I guess you could say. It had pinon trees and scrub oak and stuff like that on it and we walked—well, not scrub oak, but cedar—and walked down the hillside into an arroyo, a dry wash, and then walked south down a dry wash toward where the agates were supposed to be at.

As we came around a bend in the arroyo that had pinon and cedar trees growing, we were able to see farther ahead down the arroyo and on the next ridge line there was a large silver disc shaped object was embedded in this side of the ridge line ... there was debris and wreckage strewn about the area mainly this thing was intact. I would estimate its size from an adult perspective to something like 35 feet in diameter. I’ve heard other people who were there say they thought it was like 50 feet. But as an adult, I would say about 35 feet in diameter, quite large. When we got up to it there were four bodies there ... not human, there was two of them that were obviously dead, one of them was obviously very badly injured, and one of them apparently suffered no ill effects ... or it didn’t appear to be injured and was ambulatory, was mobile. It was just setting there next to the one...

Q: Were they right next to the vehicle?

A: Right next to it. Right under the edge of it. And this craft had apparently come in from the east and bounced off one ridge line, plowing through this arroyo area and then crashed into the ridge line and embedded itself. They were sitting back under the edge, it was kind of tilted up like this and they were sitting back under the edge here. And I’m assuming that this one creature that was all right had laid this material on the ground but it looked like unrolled tinfoil that these other three creatures were laying on. Like it was trying—like you do a person in shock, you know, a put him on a blanket, that kind of thing. And apparently it had some boxes there around it and had apparently been trying to give first aid or help these other creatures when we first got there.

As we approached, the creature drew back like this, like it was in fear, like we were going to hurt it. And it wasn’t very long, you know, we were trying to communicate with it, the adults were. It seemed to calm down and just sat there and kind of looked back and forth, watching them, apparently trying to figure out what was going on...

Q: What did it look like, a little bit more.

A: These creatures, all of them, were, oh, about four foot tall, four and a half feet tall. They had very large heads that were shaped larger on the top and they kind of tapered down, not to a real sharp point but just tapered down where they were thin. And they had very large, very large, oval shaped or almond shaped, I guess you could say, black eyes. The head... They were so shiny, they had almost a bluish tint to them when the light reflected off of them. Their skin coloration, the best way that I could describe that is it was kind of a bluish tinted milky-white. It looked like someone in shock. And the ones that were laying on the ground were really—really looked more that way, more blue in the light, you know...

Q: How about ears, nose, mouth?

A: No, there were no visible ears on the creatures except like—if you was just to cover your ear like this to where there was just a rise there and then a hole without, you know, your ear lobe and the rest of the area...

Q: How about nose?

A: It was—the nose was very, very small, almost imperceptible. It’s like two holes, straight in; and the lips were just a straight line. It was like a cut and you couldn’t see, just the lips like we have, it was just a slit. And...

Q: What hair color? Sound?

A: Pardon?

Q: What hair color?

A: There was no hair. They were completely bald.

Q: And no sounds?

A: I never heard a sound one, not out of any of the creatures including the one that was...

Q: Did you see fingers?

A: Yes, they had fingers like this. They didn’t have a little finger. They just had the thumb and three extra digits except the center digit was longer and the other two were about the same size. They were very long and slender and looked very delicate and I made the statement before and I’ll make it again, I think he would have made an excellent violinist because of the structure of their hands.

They were wearing one piece suits. All of them were dressed exactly the same. It was sort of a real shiny silverish gray color.

Q: No zippers, buttons?

A: No, I saw no zippers, no buttons.

Q: Insignias?

A: No, no insignias. The only thing that was different, you know, and they all had this, but the only that was different from the silvery gray thing, the suit, was that down like a seam line, like there was a seam on his shoulder and around the collar it was trimmed in what appeared to be maroon, like cording.

Then the suits were continuous with their footwear. We could see right this area down, it seemed to be less pliable then it was up here, like this was a stiffer area, like they were boots or shoes or something. But they were all dressed exactly the same.

Q: Okay. So you and your family are talking back and forth, wondering what was going on, what did your family say? I mean...

A: Well...

Q: ...did they say anything?

A: Yes, my brother, one of his first remarks I heard him say him say, “That’s a god damn spaceship.” You know there were bodies up there and, you know, I was told not to go up there, which I didn’t. And...

Q: How old was your brother at the time?

A: He was in his early twenties, I think, 20, 21, something like that.

Q: He was a lot older than you were?

A: Oh, yes, considerably.

When we got up there I kind of meandered off to one side. This thing was cocked up and I was standing here, the bodies were here, and everybody else was kind of down here except my cousin Victor was over here playing and looking in this gaping hole on the side of this disk. And it was shaped just like a discus except for a round dome was up on top and there was this big gaping gash in there. We could see inside and it looked like a double hull.

Q: How big—explain it? The gash.

A: The dome?

Q: No, the gash.

A: Well, it covered the greater majority from the center of the craft out. It was just like a gaping hole in there. I mean I’m thinking, you know, it’s like about 32, 35 feet in diameter so we’re talking about 17 feet maybe. Most of that one side was ripped open like that. You could see inside and you could see another double hull, like—in there. And there were just rows of components that was on there.

And there were lights that flashed on and off. Some of them were steady and some were flashing. There was a lot of debris and stuff hanging out of the hole. There was evidence that there apparently had been fire. It looked like it had been burned along the edge there. The gash...

Q: Now this wasn’t a gash that could have been caused by the thing coming in for the ground? It wasn’t at the leading edge of the vehicle?

A: No, no. This was in the side like—it almost appeared it was elliptical. It almost appeared as if something the same shape as the disk we were looking at had hit that same—you know, like it hit the disk and left an imprint that pretty closely approximated the outside diameter of the disk itself. And it appeared to be caved in looking, kind of like it hit them like this and it just crumpled and caved in and ripped it open.

Q: Okay, so you’re there, you take all this in, everybody is mystified. What were the circumstances outside? Hot, cold?

A: Very, very hot. Incredible to me, being the first time in New Mexico and coming from back east. I had dry heaves. It was like the inside of an oven. It was unbelievable to me. You know, the odd part about this was that the closer you got to it, the cooler it was. And standing under it in the shade there next to these creatures’ bodies, it was like refrigerated air conditioning. And...

Q: Did you feel air coming out of this thing?

A: No, it was just like it was (inaudible).

And I remember reaching up and putting my hand on the side of it but I think I was afraid I was going to hit my head because there was enough room for me as small child, you know, I was approximately the same size as these creatures, to walk up under there and stand there but I kind of did like that, put my hand up against this thing.

Q: What did it feel like?

A: It was ice cold. It felt like it just came out of a freezer.

Q: Was it smooth? Was it rough?

A: It was very smooth. It had a very smooth texture to it. It was obviously made out of metal. It was very solid and it was very cold, ice cold.

And there was a smell in the area. It smelled volatile, acrid, like acetone. And that seemed to be coming out of that gash, that smell. But the closer you got to this thing, the cooler it was so, you know, I kind of remained there.

And I guess that while they were over here, my father and my uncle Ted and my brother. Uncle Ted was trying to talk to this thing in Spanish and of course it didn’t understand a word he said. And dad tried to talk to it and then they tried, you know, sign language and that didn’t work.

And I don’t know, for some reason, I just—I reached down and touched it, this one that was laying next to me. When I touched it I realized and I jumped back. It scared me. It startled me because I suddenly realized that these weren’t dolls. I thought they were plastic dolls. And I—you know, it was still in my mind that these were dolls until I touched it and then I realized, you know, this was a dead thing.

I’d seen dead relatives before and unfortunately made a mistake one time in touching a relative that was in a casket and I just knew this was a dead thing and it scared me, and I ran around behind my father and my uncle and this thing was sitting there on the ground and it kept looking back and forth. And it just had its hands like this in its lap, and just kept looking back and forth between the three of them and—like it was trying to understand.

And all of a sudden it just turned and looked right straight at me between my uncle Ted and myself. And this is when—it was just like an explosion of things in my head, things... I started, you know, feeling, just terrible depression and loneliness and fear and just, you know, awful, awful feelings that just suddenly burst in to my mind there. I don’t know if that meant that it was communicating with me and I was the only one there that it could communicate with because I was a kid. I don’t know.

I turned and ran and I ran across the arroyo and up on the area that it had bounced off of during the crash. I was just standing there looking down at this scene, you know, at my family, and off in the distance I could see cattle grazing. I could see a windmill and could see dust trails out on the plains out there.

And, oh, I was there for a while and then I came back down. I guess we were there—Victor was, when I got back down there Victor was up in the craft and Ted yelled at him to get out of there and Glen went over and grabbed him by the belt and jerked him around...

Q: That’s your brother?

A: Yes.

And jerked him off, says, “Get out because this thing may explode and kill us all,” you know, and then of course he went prowling around in there.

I was kind of standing off to one side looking. That’s why I knew that there was—I can look off these rocks that I was standing on and look right into this thing. That’s why I knew, you know, about the lights and the components and stuff.

And then I heard other people talking. I turned and there was a group of people coming up the arroyo from out on the plains from the south. They had come up there and of course they walked up and was talking.

Q: How many?

A: There was an older man and five younger students.

Q: Boys, girls?

A: Three boys and two girls. And they were all, you know, introducing, talking to my father and my uncle and my brother...

Q: What did the older one look like?

A: He was a very tall man, a very big man. He was wearing a pith helmet when he first came up, one of those kind of explorer helmets. And he was bald and I know that because he had taken it off and he had, you know, wiped it with a handkerchief and put it back on. He was a balding man. And he had a round face. He was very ruddy complected. A big man, and he apparently was a doctor because they kept calling him doctor and it was my understanding that it was an archeological group that was out there on some kind of summer thing. And they talked and he apparently was able to speak several foreign languages and he tried to talk to this creature several times in different languages, again to no avail.

Q: How did they happen to be there? Had he seen the thing...

A: Well, they claim that they saw—they said they saw this thing come down the night before in flight, you know, and they thought it was a meteorite and they had talked about well, early in the morning, you know, we’ll go over and see this, where this meteor came down, because that’s what they thought it was.

And when the sun came up the next morning, you know, and they got about their business, got up and somebody looked over and said, you know, they saw this shiny metal and stuff across the plains there and they realized it wasn’t a meteorite, it may have been an airplane that had crashed so they all decided to go over there and see if there was anybody left alive, you know, that was hurt that needed help.

Q: They had driven over?

A: No, they walked over apparently, the way I understand it. And it’s quite a ways across that plain so it had to take a very long time to do this or they may have had a vehicle, I don’t know. That’s an assumption, I think, on my part, where they walked.

Q: Okay. So they’re around...

A: But they came across...

Q: ...with the family...

A: ...the plains. I don’t know why I said that. I’m not sure if they drove or not. I didn’t hear any cars.

Q: And then somebody else shows up?

A: Yes, they were down just, oh, 15 maybe 20 minutes tops, you know. And they were picking up things, some of the students. And this Dr. Buskirk, that they called him, this one girl went up and said, “Look, doctor, wouldn’t this make a beautiful ring?” And she was holding what looked like a red rod, a red tube that was some kind of silvery-red.

And he kind of snapped at her, you know, “Put that down because you don’t know what that thing is. That thing could hurt you. Don’t pick this stuff up.”

And she kind of said, “Well, yes, okay, doctor.” And then he went back to what he was doing and she walked away and put it in her pocket.

And a lot of them were doing this, sort of picking up things and feeling things. I was picking up things and feeling things. It was all kinds of material and metal, stuff like that. I heard it, well, we all heard it, the sound of a motor coming, like a truck. And I went back up the incline area to the ridge line and I could see out there, there was a truck coming up. It was an old pick-up truck. It was sort of a beige color, a tan colored van with an antenna on it. And it stopped and this guy got out and he’s wearing brown clothes. He’s got boots on and he’s wearing a straw hat, just like the kind that Harry Truman always wore, and he had wire rimmed glasses. He was a big man and he looked exactly like Harry Truman to me. You know, I’d seen him in the Movietone News...

Q: He was president then.

A: Yes, I was well aware who Harry Truman was. Everybody was. He was kind of a hero, you know, and he just kind of looked like him except bigger, bigger. You know, I don’t think he—and he didn’t look as old either. His hair was kind of light gray.

And he walked over there and they got to talking, you know, with everybody and he told them that he worked out on the plains out there and that he made maps and that he had seen the wreckage from out there on the plains and he saw the people and he thought it was a plane wreck and, you know, that something was going on and he came over to see.

And he hadn’t been there but just a very, very few minutes when we heard all kinds of motors and engines straining and stuff. And here comes a military car with a big white star on the side of it followed by a six-by which is a military truck with a kind of canvas wagon, kind of a canvas thing over it and it’s full of soldiers. They’ve got guns. And right behind them is what we call a four-by which is like a medium sized jeep/truck situation and it had two big high whip antennas, all kinds of radio gear in the back and a guy back there with ear phones and stuff on and he’s, you know, working these radios. And they all pulled up and stopped.

Q: Which direction did they come from, do you know?

A: They came from the north, from the Horse Springs area, right...

Q: So they could have come off the highway there...

A: Oh, yes. I’m sure that’s exactly how they got there. They come off the highway, the same way we did. Well, in the meantime, when they stopped, this black soldier, this sergeant, the reason I know he was a sergeant, my brother told me he was, and he got out of this car and then a guy got out on the other side and he was a, Glen said he was a captain, he told me later he was a captain and this guy had orange and red hair. So all the soldiers and them came running over there pointing guns at people, telling them, “Get away, get away, get away,” you know? And when this creature saw these people, the military, he went nuts. He went into an absolute panic, worse than what he did when he saw us.

Q: Did he move around or just his eyes or...

A: He just, he just...

Q: Oh, okay.

A: ...went crazy. And it was like...

Q: Like he was scared?

A: Yes, like he was looking for a place to run and hide.

Q: But he never got up?

A: He never got up. He never left the beings that were next to him.

And this red headed officer, this guy was a real butt hole. He made all the threats. He threatened to have people shot.

Q: Everybody?

A: He went, “Get away, get away,” you know, “We’ll shoot. Get away from there. This is a military secret.” You know, just screaming and hollering. He told my uncle and my father that if they didn’t want to spend the rest of their life in prison they would never say anything about what they saw there, if they ever wanted to see us kids again, they’d take the kids away. They’d never see the kids, you know, meaning me and Victor. That we’d better keep our mouths shut because if we did not, this is what was going to happen. They were threatening people and pushing people...

Q: The students as well and Dr. Buskirk?

A: Oh, yes. They were hustling everybody. And one of the soldiers pushed my uncle. He had a rifle like this and he shoved him back like that. Well, that was something you didn’t do to my uncle Ted. Ted had a violent temper. And he grabbed the rifle and reached over top and smacked this guy and dropped him right there. And Ted would go out and fight, heck, this guy’s a cowboy. He’ll hit you in a minute.

And of course when he did that there was bolts opened and I guess cocking, they were cocking their rifles. They were pointing guns at people and everybody Buskirk and Glen and dad grabbed him, you know, pulled him back and got him away. “No, don’t, Ted, they’re going to shoot. Don’t do that.” You know, trying to stop this. And I think we came very close to having someone shot.

Then they really started threatening, you know, and they...

Q: Did the redhead do all the talking, pretty much?

A: Pretty much. Except once in a while the sergeant would, you know, chime in and make statements like that to other people in response to the redhead. But mainly it was the redhead...

Q: Was there a name tag?

A: Yes, sir, there was. His name was Armstrong. And I’m not sure if I know that from having read it or know that from remembering it and now being able to read it in my memory, or if someone said that to me. But his name was Armstrong, it was right here on his uniform.

Q: But he chased you guys away pretty quick?

A: Yes, yes, he did.

And they herded us up like cattle and we were just up the arroyo, back in the direction we came from, over the protest of this Dr. Buskirk who said, “No, no, we’ve got to go the other way. We came from over there.”

“I don’t care where you came from, get your ass up the arroyo.”

And they ran us up the arroyo and...

Q: So you get to your car again?

A: Oh, right.

Now they took us up the arroyo and just over the hill we came down, they broke us off and moved us up the hill.

Now this whole time, no one has ever frisked us down, no one has ever checked our pockets to see if we picked up any of this material and this girl, Agnes, still had that stuff in her pocket and some of the other students had stuff. To my knowledge, up to that point, they had not been searched. Whether they did so afterward, I don’t know. They never searched us, ever. They ran us back up the hill and when we got to where the car was parked, where dad had parked the car up there, there’s a jeep with a guy sitting in the back and there is a mounted machine gun in the back of this jeep and all of these soldiers.

The jeep pulls out, we’re told to get in the car, we follow the jeep, and the soldiers go with us all the way back out to the highway. When we get back out to the highway, they set us right there. They wouldn’t let us out of the car. They wouldn’t let us move forward. I don’t know whether they were making a decision or what.

When we got out to the highway, this place was absolutely full of military personnel, military equipment. There was airplanes sitting out there that they had landed on the highway.

Q: Did you see any airplanes when you were back at the site?

A: Yes, there was airplanes in the sky but nobody thought much about. You know, I didn’t think anything about it. I was used to airplanes being in the sky, having been raised in Indianapolis, Indiana, the home of the Norden bombsight, you know, the sky was always full of military aircraft at night.

And when we get back on to the highway, there’s observation aircraft, you know, high winged aircraft, and there’s one, of what I know now to be a C-47 setting there. And how we didn’t hear that land is beyond me and how he landed—well, of course, I guess you could land it if you’re a good pilot out there as there were no poles or anything.

And it was—they had torn the fence down on the north side of the highway and all this equipment was setting back up there. The plane was up there and they were taking stuff out of the plane. There was military ambulances and there were trucks with—like wreckers, cranes on them. And there was tankers, like maybe had fuel or water in them. There was just—everywhere you looked there was military.

Q: A major recovery operation?

A: Yes, it looked like an invasion force. It really did.

And they were all wearing these light khaki uniforms. They didn’t look like, you know, olive drabs. They were light khaki and they all had the same patch over their—that kind of blue funny patch with the circles on it, was on his shoulder.

And a lot...

Q: Do you have a clue as to where they came from? Did your brother or your uncle?

A: No. I don’t know where they came from. No, I don’t think anybody ever ascertained that.

There were a lot of MP patches and some of them were wearing nightsticks off of these webbed utility belts. They had night sticks and they had .45’s in holsters, you know, the automatics, full holsters. And these were the people that were giving most of the orders.

They had the road barricaded off out there and we sat there for a very long time and, you know, we were getting thirsty and everything and we asked if we could go back to Horse Springs to get some water.

“Oh, no, no. You can’t through there.”

And right after that, they said, “Now you just turn around and you head out of here now and you go to Socorro,” and this is the redhead again, “Keep your mouths shut. Just keep going and don’t look back.”

Well, as we drove away, you know, dad, “The hell with it, we’ll go to Magdalena. We’ll get water in Magdalena.” You know, because that’s where John Trujillo lived, a relative of Ted’s.

And so as we drove away, I was looking out the back window and I could see Dr. Buskirk and these kids and that guy, the guy in the pick-up was standing there and this Dr. Buskirk was doing just like this in this redheaded officer’s face and he kept pointing back behind him and I guess that meant, you know, we’ve got to go back that way and he was fed up with this guy or something and he was shaking his finger in his face when they were yelling at each other and that’s pretty much the last I saw of the whole situation. I don’t know what happened after that because we just kept going.

(END)

Transcript of Interview with W. Glenn Dennis[*] (Alleged firsthand witness to events at the Roswell AAF hospital)

[*] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2, 1992.

Q: You started getting calls from the base mortuary officer is that right, some time in the afternoon on some day in July [1947].

A: Right after noon, yeah.

Q: Do you recall, was that before the story appeared in the [Roswell Daily] Record?

A: I don’t know. I’m sure it was. I can’t honestly say, but I don’t think the paper came out until the next day, I don’t think. I’m just assuming that.

Q: I understand. When things like that happen to me way after the fact I try to remember, and I wasn’t sure if you had any recollection or not. It was the base mortuary officer who called you, not any of the MDs out there.

A: No.

Q: He was just, the mortuary officer was just the guy...

A: We used to have a standing joke. What did you do that was so bad they made you the mortuary officer.

Q: Exactly.

A: He wasn’t a doctor or anything, but he was an officer and he was probably some old boy they was trying to figure out something to do with.

We used to all have them come in, even the officer himself, say, “God, I didn’t know I screwed up that bad.”

Q: Was this a guy you’d worked with before? Somebody you knew real well?

A: No. Those guys come and go.

Q: I realize that. You don’t remember what his name was or anything like that?

A: No. I’m like Bob [Shirkey]. I think if I would see it or heard it or something I might. Those guys, they were in and out. The mortuary officer, usually they would appoint some sergeant or somebody. The only time the doctors were involved is when you’d have an embalming inspection or dress inspection where the doctors came in and examined the body to make sure everything was right. You had another inspection to make sure their dog tags, make sure all the medals and everything...

They always had two crews of inspectors. The doctors were only involved in the cause of death or the autopsies or identification process, dental charts and all that. After they did their work, then a doctor would always come in and make sure the body was embalmed because [they] know more about it than the other people. But they were involved before. You know.

Q: The reason they contacted you was because Burt Ballard’s funeral home up here had a contract with the base, right?

A: Yeah.

Q: You worked for Burt for a lot of years, didn’t you?

A: Yeah, a long time.

Q: When did you first go to work for him?

A: I went to work for him, I was hanging around the funeral home when I was like a freshman in high school. I’d want to make some extra money. “I’ll give you 50 cents to wash the hearse.” I knew his daughter real well. We were all in school together. That’s where I really got involved in the funeral home. I just kind of worked my way in it.

Q: He basically taught you the trade and all that.

A: Oh, yeah. My folks weren’t in the funeral business.

Q: The reason I was curious about it was because when I went back... I’m one of these guys that goes to Washington and then gets fed up and leaves and swears I’m never going to go back, and then I go back anyway. But the last time I went back and did that, I shared a townhouse with a guy for awhile who was a mortician from Michigan. But he had to go through all this formal training and all this rigmarole...

A: No. That started in (inaudible). Maybe you don’t want to hear this, but I was in the 9th grade, and this teacher was going around and wanted us to write a composition on what we wanted to be when we graduated from school. What were our future plans. I was kind of a wise guy, I guess I must have been, but I said undertaker, and I don’t even know why. All the girls squealed, so I got a little attention. Then she said okay, if that’s what you want to do then you’ve got a week, you bring me your composition. I want to know why you want to be an undertaker.

So I went to the funeral home. They didn’t have any books in those days or anything, but that’s where I went. That’s why I got involved in it, started.

Q: How long were you in that business before you... I know you ran the Wortley Hotel up in Lincoln [N.M.].

A: Oh, that was after I retired.

Q: Oh, I see, you retired from the mortuary business...

A: Oh, yeah. I was in the funeral business 33 years.

Q: All the time with Ballard?

A: Oh no, I had my own funeral home over in Las Cruces [N.M.], and one in Socorro [N.M.].

Q: Oh, okay.

Speaking of that, do you know Norman Todd or his family?

A: His dad and I took the state board together. He was at Clovis [N.M.]. Norman’s his son isn’t it?

Q: Yeah. He’s a lawyer over in Las Cruces [N.M.]. His...

A: Wasn’t his dad the funeral director in Clovis [N.M.]?

Q: I think so. The reason I know him is because Mike Cook, who is Steve Schiff’s press secretary, and he have been friends ever since they were in kindergarten together. It turns out that Iris Todd, I guess his stepmother, is the niece of Loretta Proctor. So talk about small world.

You got these calls from the mortuary officer who was asking you all these questions. We don’t have to go back through all of this. Then at some point you decided to go out to the base. What took you to the base?

A: At some point I didn’t decide, that’s not correct. Somebody wrote that, but I don’t think it’s right. The way I ended up out at the base later, we had the ambulance service. The way I got it, the ambulance service, I got a call, was an airman that was hurt. I took him to the base. The best I remember, he wasn’t on a stretcher or anything because we walked up the ramp and he sat up in the front seat with me. So he weren’t real bad and weren’t dying. Anyway... This guy walked in, I walked him in. Where I usually park the ambulance, there was a field ambulance there. I had to go back up to the front. The airman and I walked up the ramps. That’s why I went to the base.

Q: The hospital in those days was apparently a complex of buildings, right?

A: Yeah. Kind of like Bob [Shirkey] said, like the officer’s club. They’re all wooden barrack types.

Q: So the building that’s out there now, the rehab center is a completely new building and had nothing to do with that.

A2 [Bob Shirkey]: No. Think of a long walkway, like a tunnel, attached to the front of a series of...

Q: I know just what you’re talking about.

A: ...with a little of breezeway between each building, the best I remember it. Isn’t that right. Bob?

A2 [Bob Shirkey]: Yeah. Here was the building and you came out the front door and you went down this walkway, which I just said, like a tunnel. You could see from one end to the other, but all these separate buildings which were different wings of the hospital.

Q: This was the infirmary where you took the airman, right?

A: There were some ramps there, I think the old ramp’s still there. It was. Anyway, that’s the kind of buildings they were. You don’t see it today, no.

Q: I knew that the building, most of it, was new, but I wasn’t sure if they’d built onto it...

A: That had been worked over two or three times.

Q: When you look at it looks like it’s been one of these things where they’ve added things to it.

So you pulled around behind the infirmary, basically.

A: It was a pretty tight squeeze in there. You couldn’t get very many cars in there.

Q: How many of those ambulances were back there?

A: There were three old box ambulances. I call them box ambulance. I guess you call them... I wasn’t in the military so I don’t know what all the terms were.

Q: Like these old field ambulances.

A: They’ve got the old square field ambulances, you know.

Q: The airman walked up that ramp with you. Both of you guys went into...

A: The airman and I both went in.

Q: Did he see that stuff in...

A: He wasn’t paying any attention because he had, I had a tourniquet and towel over his busted nose, and he went right on in.

Q: Got himself into a little trouble in town, did he?

A: Rode an old motorcycle. The reason I remember it is because he had an old Indian motorcycle, and I’d just bought one. I paid $40 for one and he [rode] one, and I didn’t have any fenders, and I was thinking of maybe of...

Q: So you took him in there, and then basically after you got him taken care of you figured you’d go look up your friend, the nurse.

Let’s get that straight.

A: Stan Friedman, I think, somebody thought that I was having a relationship with this nurse. I was not. This girl wouldn’t even think about going with me, and she was going strictly, when she got her time paid back to the service she was going into an order of the nuns, sisters, and she was going to be in education and later on she changed to the nursing deal. The only reason she was in it, because her folks were in debt and she went in the service to get her education. She got her education and then she was going to pay back the church what they owed her. Her whole thing in life was, from the day she was born, her life was planned that she was going to be in an order.

Q: Did she ever tell you which order that was?

A: It was in St. Paul, Minnesota. That’s all I know.

Q: That’s where she was from.

A: That’s where she was born and raised. She never went out of the city until she went to... My understanding was she never went anywhere and she never lived anywhere. She was raised up from the time... Strictly raised by the church. That was the only life she ever planned. She wouldn’t date a man if her life depended on it. She’d get around and talk and everything, but there was no way. But everybody said I was going to marry her and... That’s bull shit.

Q: The implication was that she was cute and...

A: She was cute. I could have been interested. If I wouldn’t have played second fiddle to the Catholic church, because that’s what she would have been.

Q: How did you get to know her, just being out there on the base?

A: The ambulance service. You go out there, and you’ve got your splints on a guy, you’ve got first aid, whatever, you can’t just throw them off of your stretcher. You maybe help them... Sometimes you’re out there two hours or three. Then while you’re waiting to get your equipment back you sit in the coat room with the doctors and with the nurse’s quarters. That’s where we always had our cokes and stuff.

Q: So you’d just shoot the breeze with whoever’s around.

A: You get to know these people. That’s the only way. See, she’d only been there less than three months. Of course, I’m a crazy son of a gun... Nearly everybody remembered her. She was a good looking little thing, a beautiful little girl. We thought she was kind of lonely.

Q: As you well know, there’s been a major effort to try to find her.

[Skip in tape]

A: She was out here less than three months.

Q: So you went back there. Tell me what happened.

A: I started back there, and that’s when I got in trouble. I saw this officer standing there, and I saw this debris in the back of the ambulance. Two of them was full of debris. Like Bob [Shirkey] saw a bunch little stuff, and there was a couple of pretty good sized.

Q: Two of the three ambulances had stuff...

A: One of them’s door was closed, but the other two... There was two MPs standing right out, kind of just leaning up against the back of those. I remember.

Q: Did they challenge you when you tried to go in?

A: No... Evidently because I drove up with that airman, and they just figured whatever.

Another thing, when I was there, all the people that was there, that nurse was the only person I saw that was permanent station. Everybody else was all new in that whole hospital operation. Even in the coke room, there wasn’t anybody in there that I knew. I started back and got to the door, and I saw this...

(Pause)

We’ve been friends for years, but I don’t want to talk with him around.

Q: So the stuff you saw, you said it was not aluminum...

A: ...looked like hot stainless steel when it got hot. When you put flame on stainless, see, I do sculpture work and all that, and I know what the stuff looks like.

Q: Oh, you’re a sculpture? I didn’t know that?

A: Yeah, I’ve been doing it for years. I had my own foundry... I did. I don’t do it any more. I have my stuff done. But anyway, this stuff was a blue purplish, it looked like hot stainless steel, is what it looked like. Steel that got hot. It didn’t look like aluminum, it wasn’t even melted like aluminum. I don’t even think it was melted, just like a bunch of fragments.

Q: But there were some bigger things in there besides the fragments, right?

A: Yeah. There were was two pieces.

Anyway, do you want to go back to the nurse?

Q: Yes, please.

A: I started back, see, and this captain was standing there, and naturally, I just thought we had a plane crash. When we had that, we used to fill up the ambulances and everything else. It would (inaudible) for you to have a hand here or an arm or a foot or something. You know what I’m talking about. Then you’ve got to get in and take all that stuff and separate it and put those bodies back together with identification. That’s what you’ve got to do. I thought we had a crash.

I saw this guy, I didn’t know him. He was standing there at the door.

Q: Just inside?

A: Just kind of standing like in between the door of this room up there. I was going down the hall. I said, “Sir, it looks like we had a plane crash. Do I need to go in and get ready for it?”

Q: This was an officer?

A: Yeah, he was a captain. I remember the bars on his [inaudible]. He said, “Who are you?” I told him I was from the funeral home, and he said, “Wait right there, don’t move.”

Then he came back, that’s when the two MPs came up. When the nurse came out, we started down the hall and that’s when somebody in the back of us said, “Bring that son of a bitch back.” That’s when the redheaded captain asked where the sergeant came in right there. Then they took me on out. As I was going down the hall, she came out of, like Bob said, out of this room, and there was two guys in back of her, and they all had towels over their face.

She saw me and she said, “Glenn, what are you doing here? Get out of here, you’re going to get in a lot of trouble. How did you get in here?” She said that two or three times. She was sick.

Q: This is when you were talking to that first officer?

A: Yeah. He just told the MPs to take me back to the funeral home.

Q: He had just told them that, and then she appeared at that point?

A: He told them to take me to the funeral home, and we started down the hall, back out the hall, and that’s when she came out of another room with these other two guys. What happened, she told me the next day, they were all sick because those little bodies were in those sacks, and two of them were very mangled and the smell was horrible and one was whole and two of them were very badly mangled.

Q: Did you get a whiff of that stuff yourself?

A: No, evidently not. If I would have, I would have known what it was. I worked on a hell of a lot of stuff.

Q: In that tape you talked about working on floaters and all that kind of stuff.

A: You know.

Q: I haven’t had professional experience in it, but I’ve been involved in it.

A: In New Mexico you’ve got this hot 100 degree stuff, and you’ve got bodies out there two or three days, and (inaudible).

Q: This red headed guy, what was his rank, do you remember?

A: I think he was a captain. It seemed to me like he had on some bars.

Q: When he first appeared and started getting, essentially, pretty rough, was the sergeant around at that time, or did he show up...

A: He was kind of beside of him. I think they were standing there.... Yeah, they were definitely standing there together. I don’t know if they walked in together, because I didn’t see them until they turned me around.

Q: Was there a lot of activity at that time? Were there people...

A: People were [fastened] everywhere. And the odd part of it was, there wasn’t anybody, wasn’t any of our regular people. These were all people that I’d never seen before. That’s why I got in so much trouble. I’d never seen these guys.

Q: These were not any of the guys that would ordinarily recognize you as somebody who would...

A: And they sure as hell didn’t want me there, you know that.

Q: When he says, “Get him out of there,” the redhead, did he make any threats to you himself? Did he say, “Don’t say anything about this, forget it...”

A: He said, just like that. He says, “Now listen, Mister, you don’t go back into town starting a bunch of damn rumors.” This guy swore as much as I do. Anyway, he said, “Don’t start a bunch of damn rumors, because nothing happened out here. There’s no plane crashes. Nothing’s happened. You don’t go in and start.” Then he told the MPs, “Get the son of a bitch out of here.”

That’s when I said, right then, I said, “Look, Mister, I’m a civilian, and you can’t do a damn thing to me, you go to hell.” That’s when he said, “Listen, Mister, somebody will be picking your bones out of the sand.”

Then the black sergeant said, “Sir, he would make good dog food,” or something like that. I remember the dog food.

The next morning at 6:00 o’clock the sheriff was out at my dad’s house and told my dad, “Glenn may be in a lot of trouble with the base, and tell him to keep his mouth shut.”

I never told my story to anybody, but my dad came up, I was living in a room at the funeral home. He came up and got me out of bed and wanted to know what I’d done. He was a very patriotic old man, and he said, “If you done anything against our government, I’ll take care of it.”

Q: When was this?

A: The next morning.

Q: You were saying what the heck? What’s going on?

A: Yeah. I said, well hey... He said, George Wilcox—the sheriff and my dad were real good friends, and he said George tells me you’re in a lot of trouble out there. He wasn’t going to leave, and I told my dad the story. He got all upset because they threatened me and all this kind of stuff.

I didn’t see the nurse, then, until the next day. After I saw her, then I kept calling. When I got back to the funeral home I started calling, because she was in trouble and so was I.

Q: It was the next morning after you’d been hustled out of there that your dad came by to see you.

A: Yeah, 6:00 o’clock in the morning.

Q: He’d been called by the sheriff...

A: The sheriff went to my mother and dad’s house, and at 6:00 o’clock... My dad always got up early, sat and had coffee. He was an old carpenter and building contractor. He and George were old friends because he used to go hunting, and dad was making gun stocks, so they were good friends. They used to play some kind of domino games or 42, whatever you call it. They were good friends.

Q: So the sheriff went by to see your dad...

A: Dad said he was there at 6:00 o’clock.

Q: The sheriff came by early in the morning and then your dad immediately came from home and came to see you.

A: After George Wilcox left, my dad came up to the funeral home and wanted to know what I did.

Q: Did your dad say why the sheriff... Had the sheriff been contacted by the base, or...

A: No, he just said, he was concerned about what I’d done, how I’d got in trouble.

Q: Do you remember what he told you about what Wilcox told him?

A: He just said George said I was in trouble at the base, and what did I do.

Q: Then after having this rude awakening, you then... Did you call the nurse?

A: Well, yeah, this was in mid-morning. I remember I finally, I waited until kind of, well, it must have been 9:00 o’clock or so, and I called. I knew the work station that she always worked at. She was a general nurse. They didn’t specialize. Just orderlies and everybody was on general duty in those days. I was informed that she wasn’t there, she wasn’t working. She wasn’t working that day.

Q: It was one of the other nurses that you talked to?

A: Yeah, it was an old girl by the name of Wilson, Captain Wilson. I asked her, I said “what happened?” She said, “Glenn, I don’t know what happened, but she’s not on duty. I’ll try to get the word to her that you want to talk to her.” She was wanting to talk to me, but she was sick. She was in total shock.

Q: Did she tell you that later, that she was sick?

A: I knew she was sick. She came out with that towel. She said, she and the two doctors were sick. Then at the Officers’ Club, she said I want to know what happened to you, and I’ll tell you what happened to me. The only way we ever got to the Officers’ Club, the old regular group said you don’t go anywhere, you keep your mouth shut, [inaudible] said that. The old group, they would have known us. It probably wouldn’t have mattered. But these people, hell, these people didn’t know us. And of course I had a pass, and I had an associate membership to the Officers’ Club, the funeral home did, so I could go as I pleased. I had free access to the base.

Q: Did you meet her at the club?

A: She said she’d meet me over there. She was sick. She said I’ll meet you there.

Q: When you got there, she was at the club?

A: She was walking up when I drove up. She walked over. It wasn’t very far from the hospital.

Q: She walked from the hospital or...

A: From the nurse’s quarters.

Q: Let me back up to the event with the MPs. They physically hustled you out of the hospital...

A: Well, they didn’t carry me out, they said, “Come on, we’re taking you back,” one on each side. They didn’t have their hands on me or forcing me.

Q: I’ve forgotten which one of the accounts has them lifting you right off your feet and all that kind of stuff.

A: No. They may have got me by the elbow, but that was that. They were nice guys. They were doing what they were told to do.

Q: They got you to the ambulance. Did they follow you back to the funeral home?

A: One followed me in a pickup and the other one sat in the seat with me.

Q: Oh, I see, he actually rode with you in the ambulance.

A: He rode with me, and the other one drove a pickup and picked him up. They had a pickup.

Q: Did the guy riding with you say anything about what was going on?

A: He said he didn’t know what was going on. That was the first thing I said, “What in the hell’s going on?” You know. He said, “You know more about it than we do,” something similar to that. I don’t know the exact words, but he didn’t know anything.

Q: Now we’re back to the Officers’ Club and you met her there. When you saw her, how did she look?

A: Like a nervous wreck. Her hair wasn’t combed or nothing. She said she’d been sick all night crying and everything else, and she was still crying. She was hysterical. She put her hands over her face and said I can’t believe it. The most horrible thing she’d ever seen. She was really in bad shape.

Q: You called her and wanted to get in touch with her to talk with her about what happened.

A: I was curious.

Q: Did she seem reluctant at first to talk to you about it?

A: No, she said I’ve got to talk to you. I want to know what happened to you. She said I’ve got to talk to somebody, and that was it. You know, I’d see her a lot. I knew all those old girls out there, you know.

Q: Did she give you any indication or any reason to believe that she had been told to keep her mouth shut about it, or...

A: Well, yeah, because I’ll tell you what. She had this drawing on the back of a prescription pad, these little bodies, it was on the back, a little small thing on the back of a prescription pad. She said, “I’m going to show you something, and you have to give me your sacred oath that you won’t tell anybody when you got this and you won’t ever mention my name, because I will get in a lot of trouble.” That’s what she said. “I will get in a lot of trouble.”

Q: She didn’t say specifically that somebody had...

A: No, she just said, “I will get in a lot of trouble.” She said, “Will you do that?” I said, “Sure.”

She showed me that. And she had it written on the back like I had it on the back of that, you have my drawing, where I said note, and all that. That’s what she said.

Q: She let you keep that, she gave it to you?

A: Yeah, she said you look at it and you throw it away. I never did. I went and took it back and put it in my personal file.

Q: Which subsequently got tossed, apparently.

A: Well, all the files got tossed.

Q: What happened?

A: Well, the funeral home, I hired some guys, the manager up there now [was there] before I left, and Raymond said that he doesn’t know, because when he was working up there was another manager, and he said he thought Joe [Lucas] told (inaudible). Of course Joe and I weren’t very good friends and we’d had some problems over the funeral business, and he said Joe found my files. He said I know he went through everything you had.

He and I had a partnership in a business, and I put up all the money and it went sour and so we had problems.

Q: You and Stan Friedman actually made an effort to try and find that, didn’t you?

A: We went down there. The old file was right where I said it was, it was still there. But it was, Stan will tell you, we went down in this old basement, and I knew exactly... See, I kept files on every case that I was involved in, murders, anything that I went to court on, that I was a witness on, I kept all that. I called those my personal files. If I ever had to go back with the insurance companies or anything, I had it all right there. That’s why I had those.

Q: You found the filing cabinet but there was nothing in it?

A: No. We went through it. There wasn’t a thing in it. Stan and I both.

Q: They’d stripped it out, or was there other stuff in there...

A: There wasn’t anything in there.

Q: After all of that excitement, then what? Did it just kind of evaporate?

A: It just kind of evaporated. Then of course two or three days later, I was concerned about her because she was sick. I took her back to the nurse’s quarters and let her out. I called back the next day and they said she wasn’t on duty, and I called the next day and they said she wasn’t on duty. Then I went out there, for some reason, I don’t recall. I went out there and I asked about the lieutenant, and they said she’d been transferred out. They said, “She was transferred out yesterday.” Well, that was the day after I saw her. They got her out the next day.

Q: Who told you she’d been transferred out?

A: I don’t know. Some nurses...

Q: It wasn’t anybody that you remember?

A: No.

Q: Did they tell you where she’d been shipped to?

A: They didn’t know. They said she had been transferred, and that’s all they knew.

Q: But then you heard from her subsequently.

A: About three or four weeks later. I got a card addressed to Ballard Funeral Home. It was from her, and inside it just said, just a short note, she said we will correspond later to see what happened to each other, something similar to those words. She said the only way you can contact me is through this APO number, and there was an APO number. It was a New York APO number.

Q: So she’d gone to Europe or some place.

A: Then right on the bottom she says, “I’m in London.” That was it. I wrote a note, just a note, that said if you feel like it and you get time, then I would love to know and we’ll correspond. Mine came back. That was about three or four weeks later. Mine came back.

Q: That was the one that was marked deceased?

A: Yes. It said return to sender, [addressee] deceased.

Q: Then what did you do?

A: (inaudible)

Q: You didn’t try to follow up or see if there was any possible...

A: No. I asked (inaudible), at the time we called her Slatts Wilson, a big tall nurse, 6′2″, 6′3″, big tall skinny girl. We called her Slatts. Everybody called her Slatts. She’s the one that told me she’d heard that there was a plane crash and she was the nurse that went down on a training mission. She said that’s strictly rumor, I don’t know anything about it. That’s what I...

Q: No one’s been able to turn that one up at all.

A: I guess maybe I should never even mention this. I know no one believes this damn story. Nobody believes this story.

Q: I don’t know if that’s true.

A: Anyway, it was a hell of a story. I told (inaudible). I said I told the woman, I don’t want to give you her name, because I told the lady I’d give a sacred oath and I didn’t want to get involved. Well, it’s been 45 years, almost 40 years, and I haven’t heard anything. He said I will do it confidentially and nobody else will have this name. Well, that’s where he broke his promise after that. I got all over him about it. I called him and I was madder than hell. He said well, Bob Shirkey was the one that told everybody, that he was sitting in the back of us. Bob brought Stan [Friedman] up there when he interviewed me. He said, Bob Shirkey was the one that let out her name. To this day, Stan Friedman (inaudible) still says he did not put her name out. I’ve been on several shows, not several, but two or three interviews, and I’m not going to mention her name. If somebody says is this her name? I’m not going to say it is or it isn’t. I told Stan ... I was madder than hell about it, because I did give my word.

Q: There’s another side to that, too, from the standpoint of those who are trying to get some answers. By not having her name around, it makes it easier to cross-check the stories that you get from people. You have... It’s a question of honor, and that’s very sound. I applaud you for that. There’s not too many people around these days that are concerned about that kind of thing. And it’s also, from an investigator’s point of view, an advantage, too.

A: I’ve never read this stuff, I’ve never watched the videos, I’ve never read any books, I haven’t even read Stan’s books, I haven’t even read [Kevin] Randle’s only what they say about me. Friedman is a lot more accurate, but see...

Q: You mean about...

A: About me. I’ve read that. That’s the only thing I’ve read. I’m not a UFO guy. I’ve got another life besides UFOs. But anyway, Stan Friedman’s story is pretty well right. But Randle and them was always said I got curious. I didn’t get curious. I went out there on a call, just like I told you.

Q: The section of their book that refers to you is really kind of cryptic, anyway.

A: They said the book was already published. Now they had a copy... Friedman sent them a copy of my tape. They had the (inaudible). Hell, they had my tape. They just made that up. Somebody did.

Q: I was puzzled by it when I read their book. That whole section where they refer to you, and it’s all very mysterious, and your name is not referred to in the table of contents, but you’re in the list of people that’s been interviewed, but you’re not one of the key people lists...

A: They never did interview me.

Q: They never talk to you at all?

A: Not personally. They didn’t interview me until a long time later, a year or so later. They only had Stan’s tape.

Q: So when they were actually writing their book...

A: The book was already published.

Q: When they were doing the writing, they were working from Stan’s tape.

A: Evidently.

Q: Who was actually the first UFO investigator to get in touch with you?

A: Stan Friedman. When they had Unsolved Mysteries here and different ones. There was a lot of people... I’d get different ones. I had different people come and say we want to talk to you about the UFOs, and I said I don’t have anything to say, I don’t want to talk about it, and I never did. I’ve talked to very few people since.

Q: How did Stan come to find you?

A: One of the guys that I went to school with, high school, and Captain Harry Blake, he’s a general now, (inaudible).

Q: Is he still on active duty?

A: No, he’s retired. He was just a general in the military school, National Guard, I don’t know. He never was really a good friend of mine. We lived across the street from each other when we were kids.

Q: So that’s how Stan found you. He was the first guy to talk to you.

A: Bob Shirkey brought him up there to see me.

(Pause)

Q: There’s a reference in here to you having some years later, I think, talked to a pediatrician that you knew? A guy that was stationed...

A: I can’t find his picture, and I don’t remember his name. I ran into him when I was fishing up in Colorado and we ran into each other.

Q: This was a guy who was at that time stationed here?

A: He was here, and they called him in. He said that was out of his field and he didn’t want anything to do with it.

Q: They actually called him in and asked him to take a look at what had been retrieved or...

A: He said they called him in. I don’t know. He said, “But I said that was out of my field and I didn’t want anything to do with it.” That’s what he told me, now.

Q: Did you get the sense that he knew more than he was telling?

A: I would say so, yeah. I’m sure they did. A lot of those guys out there did.

Q: You don’t remember his name?

A: I don’t remember it. But I did run into him. Somewhere I’ve got his name.

Q: Have you talked with anyone else? Had you during that time before you got into all this...

A: No, I wouldn’t have even talked to him about it. He brought it up and wanted to know whatever happened on the UFO business.

Q: It was at his initiative.

A: I didn’t bring it up. I told him I didn’t know any more about it than he did. He said well that was strictly out of my field, and I didn’t want to get involved in it. That was about it. But he brought it up. I didn’t ask him.

Q: He was just curious about what happened.

A: Wanted to know whatever happened to it.

Q: That’s about all I’ve got.

(END)

Transcript of Interview with Alice Knight[*] (Alleged secondhand witness to “crash site” 175 miles northwest of Roswell)

[*] Excerpted from raw footage used to prepare the video, _Recollections of Roswell Part II_, (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO Research, 1993).

A: I remember that he saw—one time I went to visit—and I don’t remember whether it was before my husband and I married or after, I don’t recall the date. But he said that he saw a UFO fall. He was out working in the field and I understood that he was out on the St. Agustin Plains and he went over that way and it fell and he got nearly to the site and there was a group of people on a geological—archeological hunt and they were over there. I don’t remember how many people he said.

But they got nearly up to the UFO but it was close enough that you could see some creatures. He said they didn’t look like human beings out there.

And along came government cars and trucks...

Q: Now, by government you mean...

A: I guess it was government. You know, as I said it was a long time ago. And someone came along and I understood it, I don’t know whether it was army or what. I think he just termed it government trucks and they told him to go on back and forget they ever saw anything, and that’s all I recall.

(END)

Transcript of Interview with Vern Maltais[*] (Alleged secondhand witness to “crash site” 175 miles northwest of Roswell)

[*] Excerpted from raw footage used to prepare the video. _Recollections of Roswell Part II_, (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO Research, 1993).

A: ...he [the eyewitness] had been coming back from one of his field trips, he’d run onto a flying saucer that had burst open and there were four beings on the ground and that he was surveying the site, archeological group from the University of Pennsylvania, telling us that there were about four or five people with this group.

As they were just starting to look things over really closely, the military moved in and gave them a briefing not to say anything about it and keep quiet and it was in the national interest to get out of there.

Q: What was his feeling about what it was that he had experienced?

A: He had no qualms about what it was. He said it was a vehicle from outer space. There wasn’t any question. The beings on there were nothing like, not exactly like human beings....

Q: How did you...

A: ...similar but not exactly.

Q: How did he describe them?

A: He described them being about three and a half to four feet tall, very slim in stature, and with—their heads were hairless, with no eyebrows, no eyelashes, no hair. Sort of a pear-shaped head with the top of the head being smaller—larger, I mean.

Q: Any other characteristics about their appearance?

A: Only one thing that he mentioned. The hands were not covered, they had four fingers.

(END)

Transcript of Interview with James Ragsdale[*] (Alleged firsthand witness to “crash site” north of Roswell)

[*] James Ragsdale, interview with Donald R. Schmitt, January 26, 1993.

RAGSDALE, JAMES EYEWITNESS Transcript 26 JANUARY 1993

DS: So you were actually out there.

JR: Yeah.

DS: Do you remember the name of the ranch it was on?”

JR: It was on ... Fisher?

DS: Was it north of here.

JR: Yes ... back out here.

DS: Northwest ... Just take your time.

JR: It was Foster. (Some discussion with his wife about who owned the ranch) ... Let me see what you’ve got (referring to the photographs). That’s the place right there (identifying the location from the pictures).

DS: What area?

JR: It seemed to me that that place belonged to ... Fisher, but it sold to somebody else ... somebody else bought that... That’s how come I was out in that area. And we was out there and she’s dead and all the guys I showed the stuff are all dead. It’s amazing what all went on...

Discuss our book and the Museum.

DS: showing one of the pictures ... so you think this looks like

JR: That looks like the place.

DS: As far as the ranches go, driving around at that time, it could have been most any ranch, right? This would have been in '47 ... You were with this woman?

JR: Yeah. We were camped out out there.

DS: You were camping?

JR: Yeah... I would say half of it ... I would say that only about half of it ... just half of a ... you really couldn’t tell what it was ... what you could still see, where it hit ... I think it was two spaceships flying together and one them came down and the other one picked up what they could and got out of there.

DS: Is it possible that because it was hit by lightning that it broke up and part of it went down ... (discussion of the Mac Brazel sighting)

JR: ... but it was either dummies or bodies or something laying there. They looked like bodies. They weren’t very long ... over four or five foot long at the most. We didn’t see their faces or nothing like that but we had just got to the site and heard the army, the sirens, all coming and we got into a damned jeep to take off. We had to hold a fence up to go onto another ranch to come out from there.

DS: How far would you say this from town here?

JR: Thirty miles ... forty miles.

DS: In a northwesterly direction?

JR: Right up here. (Discuss the pictures again.)

DS: Were there any buildings?

JR: No. You couldn’t see nothing. You go up on top of the hill. It was a hill ... (referring to the pictures) you could see the stuff right here.

DS: The object ... the craft ... what was left of it ... in these photos ... where was the object?

JR: Along this right here ... It looked to be about half of around (?) because around the edges ... I had two great big pieces. That’s what they got when they stole the car ... you could take that stuff and wad it up and it would straighten itself out. I never seen anything like it. Looked like something between a plastic ... looked like carbon paper...

DS: That was the color of it?

JR: Yeah. Carbons. That was the color of it. Sure was ... between plastic and ... hell I don’t know ... let’s see how to describe. One piece we had you could take it and put it in any form you wanted and it would stay there ... you could bend it in any form and it would stay ... it wouldn’t straighten back out.

DS: You picked those up from the ground?

JR: Yeah.

DS: You threw them in the jeep ... stuffed them in your clothes...?

JR: Yeah and then we heard all of them coming...

DS: How many vehicles ... how much commotion did you hear as they came in?

JR: Oh my God it must have been ... it was two or three six by six army trucks, a wrecker and everything ... and leading the pack was a '47 Ford car with guys in it ... MPs and stuff in it ... we had the windshield down on the jeep and we stayed in the weeds and stuff ... and we came on back down to where we was camped at.

DS: So you watched for a while?

JR: Yeah. Sure did.

DS: What was their...

JR: They cleaned everything all up. I mean cleaned it. They raked the ground and everything. I mean they cleaned everything.

DS: You didn’t stay there that long?

JR: No, but they had a truck. I would say it was six or eight big trucks besides the pick up, weapons carriers and stuff like that.

DS: What kind of guard did they have. Did they surround certain areas...

JR: They had MPs all ... they got way out in the field. They had people all along this ridge ... they drove up in here. We was back over here. This grass here...

DS: So if you were back here, could you see the activity down here?

JR: You couldn’t see too much of what they ... you could tell ... As soon as they got there they began gathering the stuff up ... we were hidden in what you call buffalo grass...

DS: Did you see any behavior around the bodies.

JR: Huh-uh.

DS: You couldn’t see down to that level?

JR: Yeah.

DS: Did you see any activity near the craft?

JR: No.

DS: The angle of the craft ... was it flat was tipped...

JR: One part was kind of buried in the ground ... and part of it was sticking out of the ground ... about like that (DS: about a 30 degree angle?) Yeah ... and I’m sure that was bodies ... either bodies or dummies...

DS: Why do you say “dummies?”

JR: The federal government could have been doing something because they didn’t want anyone to know what this was ... they was using dummies in those damned things ... they could use remote control.

DS: So you thought that it could have been an experimental craft?

JR: After I came to town showed Frank Willis and his son (he’s dead) ... the Blue Moon beer joint over on the old Dexter highway. We was there until two o’clock in the morning ... I had the jeep behind my car.

DS: Did you still have the scrap in the jeep?

JR: Yeah. I showed it to him. He said I would just keep my mouth shut ... he said hell there is no telling where that come from.

DS: So you didn’t think it was from outer space?

JR: No. We didn’t even think about outer space back then...

DS: When was the first time that you thought that maybe this was something more?

JR: It was about three weeks ... it came out that a spaceship had crashed at Roswell ... about three weeks. But it could have been out longer than that there but see I worked in Carlsbad...

DS: But you first saw there had been a newspaper article about three weeks after...

JR: Oh hell it was two or three weeks before I caught up on it ... a spaceship ... what I hear is they guarded that place for a long time out there ... because me and another fellow went out there and you couldn’t get ... they had the roads sealed off ... it was a month or so after...

DS: And they still had it cordoned off.

JR: The MPs and stuff were still on the road. They wouldn’t let nobody go out there...

DS: If a person were to drive out there today ... going north out of town ... are we talking 285?

JR: No. Highway 48. You go out 48. You go out here to the truck route, hit 48 and ... and it’s about forty some miles out in there ... (And no talks about the car being stolen in 1951 when the car with the debris was stolen...) ...I would say 18 inches and 30 inches long ... strips off the edge of it ... it was a heavy material but it didn’t have no ridges ... it was put together with some kind of solder like stuff ... no bumps, no nothing in it ... it wasn’t ... it was about as heavy as duraluminum ... it wasn’t as brittle ... you could take a small piece and it was flexible ... (then discuss the stealing of the car with a wrecker and the material was locked in the trunk of the car. And then discuss the break in of the house where the last of the pieces were stolen about eight years ago ... 1985).

DS: Was there a storm that night?”

JR: Yeah. There sure was. It was a whale of a storm.

DS: Did you hear anything unusual? Did you hear ... between the cracks of thunder...

JR: Well, it lit up the sky when it came down. It lit up the damned ... we thought at first that it was falling star or something. And electric lightning ... man it was something.

DS: You heard something and you saw something...

JR: Yeah, sure did ... because we were laying there in the back of the pick up ... the whole sky lit up ... we thought it was a star falling.

DS: Did you then go to check it out...

JR: Sure did. The next day, sure did. We drove right up on it. She picked up a piece of it and we had the jeep parked a little ways away from there and throwed a piece of it up there somewhere and I have tried and tried to find where she had throwed that piece ... she had a piece but when she saw the army coming she throwed it out ... she saw them a coming and she throwed it out ... I doubt that I could even go back to the place it’s been so long. (Now begin to talk about the car wreck that nearly killed him.)

Remainder of the tape is discussion about the car wreck, the ranchers in the area, and the murder of Mrs. Ragsdale’s brother.

(END)

Selected Bibliography of Technical Reports

The technical reports listed below are available for sale by contacting: National Technical Information Service (NTIS) 5285 Port Royal Rd Springfield, VA 22161 (703) 487-4650 http://www.orders@ntis.fedworld.gov

Publication NTIS Report Number

Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratories. “Report on Research, for the Period July 1965-June 1967”, AFCRL TR-68-0039, 1968. AD 666484

Air Force Missile Development Center. _MAN HIGH III_, MDC-TR-60-16, 1960. AD 259635

——. _MAN-HIGH I_, MDC-TR-59-24, 1959. ADA 215867

Air Research and Development Command. _History of Flight Support Holloman Air Development Center, 1946–1957_, 1957. ADA 323526

Bartol, Aileen M., et al.. _Advanced Dynamic Anthropomorphic Manikin (ADAM) Final Design Report_, AAMRL TR-90-023, 1990. AD 234761

Bushnell, David. _Contributions of Balloon Operations to Research and Development at the Air Force Missile Development Center Holloman AFB, N. Mex. 1947–1958_, 1958. ADA 323109

——. _History of Research in Space Biology and Biodynamics at the Air Force Missile Development Center, Holloman AFB, New Mexico, 1946–1958_, 1958. ADA 323170

——. _History of Research in Subgravity and Zero-G at the Air Force Missile Development Center, Holloman AFB, New Mexico, 1948–1958_, 1958. ADA 323144

——. _Major Achievements in Biodynamics: Escape Physiology at the Air Force Missile Development Center, Holloman AFB, New Mexico, 1953–1958_, 1958. ADA 323127

——. _Origin and Operation of the First Holloman Track, 1949–1956_, 1956. ADA 323573

——. _Research Accomplishments in Biodynamics: Deceleration and Impact at the Air Force Missile Development Center, Holloman AFB, New Mexico, 1955–1958_, 1958. ADA 323097

——. _The Aeromedical Field Laboratory: Mission, Organization, and Track Test Programs, 1958–1960_, 1960. ADA 323166

——. _The Beginnings of Research in Space Biology at the Air Force Missile Development Center, Holloman AFB, New Mexico, 1946–1952_, 1958. ADA 323167

Cobb, D. B. and Waters, M.H.L. Royal Aircraft Establishment Farnborough. _The Behavior of Dummy Men During Long Free Falls_, Mechanical Engineering Note 179, 1954. AD 060052

Firestone, James R. and Patterson, Jack H. _Recovery of Parachute-Borne Packages by Helicopter_, TDR 62-6, 1962. AD 276477

Flight Summary, Non-Extensible Balloon Operations, 6580th Test Squadron (Special), June 1950 to October 1954. ADA 323108

Gildenberg, Bernard G. “General Philosophy and Techniques of Balloon Control”, in Lewis A. Grass, ed., _Proceedings, Sixth AFCRL Scientific Balloon Symposium_, AFCRL-70-0543, 1970. AD 717149

——. _Capacity and Fatigue Tests on Three Mil Polyethylene Balloons_, HADC TN-55-4, 1955. AD 066092

——. _Crane Launch Techniques for Polyethylene Balloons_, HADC TN 57-3, 1957. AD 123732

——. _Development of Shroud Inflation Techniques for Plastic Balloons_, HADC TN-54-4, 1954. AD 039440

——. _Investigation of Inflation Techniques for Nonextensible Balloons_, HADC TN 54-7, 1954. AD 067595

——. _Meteorological Aspects of Constant-Level Balloon Operations in the Southwestern United States_, AFCRL-66-706, 1966. AD 644895

——. _Summary Report Project Moby Dick: Covered Wagon Balloon Launcher Development and Test Results_, HDT-21, 1952. AD 001124

——. _Techniques Developed for Heavy Load Non-Extensible Balloon Flights_, Report No. HADC-TN-54-3, 1954. ADA 030902

Greer, R.J., et al. _Development of a Balloon-Borne Manned Vehicle_, WADC TR-59-226, 1959. AD 227244

Hertzberg, H.T.E. _The Anthropology of Anthropomorphic Dummies_, AMRL TR-69-61, 1969. AD 706411

Hess, Joseph. _Determination of Parachute Descent Times and Impact Locations for High Altitude Balloon Payloads_, AFCRL 63-885, 1963. AD 421021

Holloman Air Development Center, Weekly Test Status Reports, Project MX-1450B/7218 (HIGH DIVE), June 1954 to January 1956. ADA 323823

Madson, Raymond A., 1st Lt. _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops, II. The Stabilized Dummy Drops_, WADC TR 57-477 (II), 1961. AD 270880

——. _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops,