Part 12
The Post-Office here have been making a strange jumble, and have drawn up a most extravagant Act, God knows why, which they sent to Lord Clermont; I enclose it to you, with my answer to him. We shall be devilishly pressed in the House of Commons about our settlement, as the argument of war is at an end; and yet I doubt whether the people here have either leisure or knowledge sufficient even to talk about it yet. The latter I am sure I have not; and even if I had, I should not think it wise to set the head of every Irish projector here and with you, perfectly afloat. In the meantime it will be matter of some difficulty to parry it.
Did I state to you in my account of the debate, Percival's question about the Act of Henry VIII., under which offences committed in the King's dominions beyond seas are triable in England? I rather think the answer will be, both to that and to what I think Lord Beauchamp will probably move, namely, a repeal of all English Acts, as far as they affect Ireland; that they fall to the ground themselves, except where confirmed by Irish Acts; but that if they were repealed, a question might arise how far even those would continue in force, according to Yelverton's Bill.
Ever yours, W. W. G.
P.S.--Yesterday, after making eighteen post-captains the day before, and after having attended the Cabinet in which the preliminaries were signed, Lord Keppel resigned the Admiralty. There are two ideas upon this; one is that he had always intended it as soon as peace was concluded, the other that he disapproved the articles. I think they are very consistent, and that if he had the first intention, he would take care to lay a groundwork for future opposition by refusing his concurrence to the peace; besides which, he probably feels little disposed to any mode of bringing about an event by which he loses so much consequence, and what is no less dear to him, so much patronage. I hear nothing said from any authority about his successor; the Duke of Grafton and Lord Howe seem to be the persons most talked of. Things are going on much too well in Ireland for them to think of, or I think for you to wish, especially at this moment, a different arrangement from either of those two.
It is very much reported, and I believe with certainty, that the Duke of Richmond has retired from the Cabinet, and means at the same time to keep the Ordnance. What other people mean about that, is, I think, not quite so clear; though the Duke of Richmond's bitterest enemy could not, I should think, wish to see him in a more degrading situation--such a situation, indeed, as it seems impossible should last for any length of time, or a moment longer than till a proper successor is found.
Minorca goes to France, and not to Spain, as Tom told you. That, I think, is _tant pis_.
I have just received your despatches of the 22nd, and found, to my great disappointment, that you had not then received mine of the 19th. It is upon the conviction of _bonne foi_ that I act.
Ever yours, W. W. G.
I hope if the Admiralty should be offered you, you deliberate very maturely, particularly on the prospect in the House of Commons here.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, Jan. 27th, 1783.
My dear Brother,
Although Townshend has probably informed you, yet I could not help writing a line by this messenger to congratulate you upon the capture of a French seventy-four and frigate, with which the war ends. They were taken near Barbadoes, by Hughes's squadron, after a short action with the 'Ruby,' the headmost ship.
I have already written by the post. The Duke of Richmond's resignation is not certain; and Townshend, Conway and Pitt certainly approve and stay in.
Ever yours, W. W. G.
Some particulars concerning the arrangements for the new Order of Knighthood will be read with curiosity. The pretensions of particular individuals to the Ribband of St. Patrick do not properly form materials for political history, and a few letters, in which such claims are freely canvassed, have been excluded from our selection. But the following, which touches upon the small preliminaries to which statesmen are forced to condescend on these ceremonial occasions, possesses more general interest of an illustrative kind.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, Jan. 31st, 1783.
My dear Brother,
While you are persecuted by Lords Arran, Aldborough, Altamnt, and _omne quod incipit_ in A, I have had daily application from Lord Clermont, which I have promised to submit formally to you.
His family and connexions in Ireland and their weight is the first thing he states. To this I gave the answer of non-residence. He says that he always resides during the Parliament winter; that he has a house and establishment both in Dublin and in the country; and that he is more a resident than Lord Clanricarde or Lord Courtown. I then stated the impossibility of increasing the number, which had been a
## particular object with the King. His solution to that was, that
when the King named sixteen, he certainly did not mean to include himself; and that the Thistle is twelve without the Sovereign. He proposes therefore that, as he has always been one of those talked of for it, and _as his friends make it_ a point with him to apply, you should make it sixteen without the King, by adding his name.
You will therefore be so good as either to send him from yourself, or to commission me to write to him, a formal answer, _tel qu'il vous plaira_.
In general, the list is approved; but they object to the insertion of Lord Bechoe's name, and to the omission of Lord Meath's.
Fox and his people are very industrious in turning it into ridicule, by which I should think they would not increase their Irish popularity. And what is ridiculous, is that at the same time the Duke of Portland is taking pains to persuade all Irishmen that he meant to have done the same if he had staid long enough.
I have seen Edmonson, who has this day given me in a proposal, which you will not think much more moderate than you did his bill for the escutcheons (which, by the bye, he says you have never paid).
I should think the twenty guineas per Knight for the superintendence might very well be reduced to giving him _pro tempore_, and for this installation only, one of the heralds' places, in lieu of all travelling expenses and allowances. The Painters' Bill, as they call it, is fixed for the Bath, and might, I should think, reasonably be given to him at the same rate.
He is making out copies of the drawings; one or two alterations he has suggested which strike me. The first is the knots in the Collar. If they are gold, and the harp likewise, the whole will look, I think, too like a Lord Mayor's gold chain, and will make no show; nothing being more dull to the eye than plain gold. He wants to have them enamelled, so as to be like the strings and tassels of the mantle.
He will also send a drawing of the Badge, with the wreath of trefoil drawn in single leaves, instead of the full wreath, which looks, as he says truly, like a civic crown or oak garland. But this you will see in the drawing, and which looks best.
I wish that there was a statute to fix the plates of the Knights to remain in the stall in which they were first installed. In the chapel at Windsor they are obliged now to put them up loose, in order to their being removed; the consequence is, that they are frequently lost. Besides, the plates of the first sixteen might then be fixed in the centre of each stall as a mark of distinction for the founders.
In the Garter there are no plates in the Sovereign's stall. I should think that the Grand Master at each installation might be allowed to put up his, as the banner must of course always be the Sovereign's.
Edmonson proposes that he should have one of each article of the Painters' Bill made here, to carry with him as a pattern. If you see no objection, he might do Mornington's for this purpose. An advantage might be given to Edmonson by authorizing him to publish an account of the ceremony, with the arms and pedigrees of the Knights, &c., &c., to which they would of course subscribe.
Is the jewellery--I mean collars and badges--to be done in Ireland? I believe there is no workmanship at all of that sort there.
Townshend will, I believe, send the approbation to-night. It has waited upon an idea of the Prince of Wales, who gave it out to everybody that he had sent in to the King to ask for it.[1] This was the day after the King had given his approbation to the list, and named Prince Edward. I thought it right to wait a day or two, to know if the King would speak to him about it. He never has; and Townshend is to mention the Order again to-day, and send the approbation to night or to-morrow. Adieu.
Ever yours, W. W. G.
[Footnote 1: The Premier did ask for it, but was refused.]
The "Coalition Administration" was now beginning to "loom" dimly in the distance. Various changes were whispered, and from day to day new reports got abroad of negotiations with Lord North's party. The first step towards the consummation of an alliance may be said to have been already taken when Townshend, abandoning the traditions of his party, told Mr. Grenville that he saw no reason for proscribing all Lord North's people from _office_, although he objected to giving them any share in the _Government_. The meaning of this ingenious distinction is clear. The Administration was tottering, and the only chance they saw of strengthening their position was to buy off the opposition of the followers of the late Cabinet. To swamp their opponents and at the same time keep the actual power in their own hands, was a piece of strategy which might be expected from the general character of Lord Shelburne's tactics. But it failed, and failed conspicuously. Mr. Grenville discerned clearly the danger of this clever plan, from which he could anticipate no other result than that of sapping the foundations of the existing Government. In the letters that follow we have a close running commentary on the state of parties, and the rumours that hourly agitated the public mind during this interval of intestine struggle. Mr. Grenville considered the circumstances of the Ministry hopeless, as, we gather from his previous communications, he appears to have done all throughout. Their conduct upon the Irish Bill, which was still destined to entail division and uneasiness, revealed to him the fatal want of unity, earnestness and activity in their councils; and even if they had had no perils to guard against from without, he saw sources of weakness enough within the Cabinet itself to destroy all confidence in their stability. There were only two parties from whose ranks the Ministry could be recruited, and these two had hitherto acted in public life with the fiercest animosity towards each other. The attempts that were made to win over some of Lord North's adherents having failed, the only alternative left was to apply to Fox. That this application was actually made, and made in person by Pitt, who, with a thorough knowledge of the character of Fox, believed that the most direct mode of ascertaining his sentiments was not only the most honourable to both, but the most likely to attain its end, either by a candid refusal or immediate acceptance, is here authoritatively stated by Mr. Grenville. Fox's answer is conclusive as to the real obstacle which impeded all negotiation. While Lord Shelburne was in office nothing could be done: no party would consent to coalesce with him. The humiliating condition to which he had lowered the Administration, is shown in the straits to which it was now reduced--seeking support alternately from opposite parties, and finding its offers rejected in turn by both.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, Feb. 6th, 1783.
My dear Brother,
Townshend's messenger is nowhere, waiting for this letter; and as, by a mistake, I was not till now informed of his going to-night, I have only time to write a few lines, just to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 2nd instant, and to say a very little upon the singular situation of things here.
To-day, when I delivered your despatches to Townshend, I entered into a conversation with him on this subject, saying that you trusted to him for information, &c., &c. He perfectly agreed with me in thinking that it could not go on without some new arrangement of some sort or other. At the same time, he said that he knew of no negotiation going on with Lord North. That there was no truth in the reports which have circulated so much that Jenkinson was to be Chancellor of the Exchequer, Pitt Secretary, and himself Paymaster. That he had good reason to believe that there had been a negotiation between Lord North and Fox, but that it was now off. That, for his own part, he saw no reason for proscribing all Lord North's people from _office_, but he should not like to see them in _Government_.
Upon this text it is not very easy to reason. The prevailing idea certainly is that Lord Shelburne is making overtures to Lord North. Whether those are to go to Cabinet arrangement, or only to provision for Lord North's family and offices of emolument, &c., for George North, &c., &c., I do not know; if the former, it is clear that he keeps it from the knowledge both of Townshend and Pitt; the latter, I have very good reason to believe, would object to it.
In the meantime a storm is brewing, and will probably burst when the preliminaries come to be considered, unless some event takes place before that time. Lord Keppel and the Duke of Richmond both assign the badness of the peace for their reason for resigning. Lord Carlisle does the same, but I understand his great objection goes to the Loyalists, to whom he considered his personal honour engaged. The report of the day is, that the Duke of Grafton has followed their example. Of this Townshend said not one word to me, nor did I hear it till after I had seen him. This rather makes me disinclined to believe it, though his Grace has certainly had a kind of flirtation with Fox for some days past.
Upon the whole, the only thing which I can at all venture to pronounce with certainty, is that it cannot do as it is; and that if Fox's people continue, as I believe they will, to stand aloof, they must either all resign, or fill up the vacancies as fast as they occur, day after day, with Lord North's people. _En quo discordia cives prodaxit miseros._
In the case of an immediate resignation, Lord North's people will come in by storm (Fox not having the least chance): in that of gradual admission, they will sap the Government by degrees. In either case, there is too much reason to fear the return of the old system of corruption on one side, and faction on the other.
With regard to the peace, I own I cannot think it so bad, all things considered. If one measures it by an _uti possidetis_, it is surely advantageous; and I see no reason for being at all confident that another campaign would have put us in a better situation to negotiate. In this line, I had intended to have stated my ideas on the day of debate in the House of Commons; but I am deterred by reading your opinions, and by a fear, I believe too well grounded, that you will take an active part the other way; and I cannot reconcile myself to the appearance of a Scotch family. If it had not been for this, I think it would have had a handsome appearance in the hour of their distress, and would not have had a bad effect in Ireland; if, indeed, we are any longer interested there, which I begin to doubt. Adieu, my dearest brother.
Ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, Feb. 8th, 1783, Nine, P.M.
My dear Brother,
I wrote to you this morning an account, which you will receive at the same time with this letter, of a conversation with Lord Bellamont. I little thought, at that time, that I should now have one of so different a nature to detail to you, which I had, just before dinner, with Percy. He said, that although he might be thought officious in coming to speak to me upon a subject, upon which it had not been thought proper to make him any communication, yet he could not help saying that he thought it inconsistent with his duty to you, &c., &c., not to state to me that he had last night procured from the House of Commons a copy of the Bill proposed; and that he was fully convinced that, so far from answering the purpose intended by it, the country would be thrown by it into a much greater flame than ever. I asked him to state his objections; he said they would be best seen by the form which he had drawn up, and would leave with me for my consideration.
I did not detail to him the many objections which occur to me upon his Bill, and particularly that most insuperable difficulty of its asserting what the right now is, in contradiction to the declared opinion of almost every lawyer in this country. But I said, in general terms, that the Bill in question had been drawn up with great consideration; and that it was a matter of infinite delicacy, on account of the great variety of prejudices to be encountered on both sides of the water. He asked if this was the form which had been sent to you, and if you had consulted people there upon it. To this I could not but answer that I understood you had, though you do not say a word to me upon that subject, and it is a question which will most certainly be asked in the House of Commons.
This unexpected difficulty has made me determine to postpone the second reading of the Bill till I have an answer to this letter, unless I should in the meantime receive one from you perfectly approving, and stating the opinions of people in Ireland as agreeing with yours upon it.
It is certainly to be observed, that the whole of this difficulty has arisen from want of communication from Ministry to you. Because, if you had known that they were determined to admit no recognition of the existing right, it would have been well worth considering whether anything short of that would not be worse than as it was before. Instead of that, they receive your resolutions and your Bill, and then pledge themselves, and suffer me to pledge both them and you to _a Bill_; after which, they first say that they will allow of nothing which admits the _original_ right, and when beat from that ground, that they will not have anything asserting the _present_ right. It then only remained, as we were pledged to _a Bill_, to consider whether this was not the best form of a Bill to be drawn on such principles.
Whatever your answer has been to Townshend's despatch, I hope at least that it has been coolly and temperately expressed, as he told me he meant to represent to you that an advantage had been taken against you from the warmth of your late despatches.
Another advantage which will arise from deferring the second reading will be, that by that time this strange, unsettled situation of things must have taken some form; and I do not believe that this form will be such as you will choose to act under in Ireland. In that case, it certainly will not be worth our while to engage our characters to a measure which the folly of your successor may render pernicious; which must at all events be precarious; and which England will most certainly repent whenever the hour of her insolence shall return. We took the business out of the hands of Lord Beauchamp, because it ought to be conducted by Government; and that will be the best reason for resigning it into other hands whenever we shall cease to stand in that character; which _whenever_ must, I think, arrive in the course of a very few days.
Jemmy is to dine at Lord Shelburne's on Monday, when he will probably be able to tell you more. I go to Townshend to-morrow, and mean to try what I can get from him.
At least we have the satisfaction to reflect, that if your reign has been short, it has not been dishonourable to you; and that having taken the Government at a most difficult and inauspicious moment, you will quit it with more real and more deserved popularity than the Duke of Portland, notwithstanding the uncommon advantages which threw themselves in his way.
Of myself I say nothing, except that wherever and whatever I am, I shall always consider myself as deriving honour, consequence and happiness from your character and success.
In these sentiments believe me, My dearest brother, Ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.
I am able to tell you nothing with any certainty as to the state of parties; but I think that neither Lord Shelburne nor Fox are strong enough to keep the Government without a coalition with Lord North's people, and that the latter are too strong to sell themselves unless they be admitted to form part of the _Government_. Fox's people no longer deny his negotiating with Lord North.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, Feb. 8th, 1783.
My dear Brother,
Lord Nugent tells me that when he saw the Primate, he observed to him that, by the list of officers of the Order, there was no mention made of any prelate, although in other respects the Garter was implicitly followed; and he says he thought, by the Primate's manner, that he himself wanted to be that prelate; as that officer is, you know, superior in rank to the Chancellor of the Order.
If this be the case, I can see no reason why the offer should not be made to him, which might still be done by your writing to say that that office had been omitted, from the impossibility of giving it to any other person but himself, and a doubt how far he might like the trouble; but that you had daily expected him in Ireland, and meant to ask him the question; but the time now drawing near, &c., &c.
Nothing else has passed on the subject, except a third application from Lord Clermont, through General Cuninghame, to whom I stated the total impossibility, &c. I expected Lord Bellamont to have asked it to-day; but he did not drop a word upon the subject.
Ever yours, W. W. G.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Feb. 11th, 1783.
My dear Brother,