Part 15
Lord Nugent objected to this. He said that, originally, when attempts had been made in the House of Commons in favour of Ireland, no man had been a more eager or strenuous supporter of them than himself. But now, ever since he had seen the disposition of this country favourable to Ireland, and that it was the sincere wish of all Englishmen to adopt the most liberal principles on that subject, he had thought that it became more proper for persons connected with Ireland to remain silent, and to leave the measures in favour of that country to be carried through by Englishmen. In the present instance, he wished that the clause in question had not been proposed, because it was attended with more difficulty than the noble Lord seemed to be aware of. The Act of Henry VIII., which had been referred to, had been adopted and confirmed as an Irish Act by the Parliament of that country. This being the case, the repeal of the English
## Act could have no effect whatever, because the Irish statute
would still remain un-repealed, and could only be removed by the Parliament of Ireland; whilst, on the other hand, we should be to take away a law which had been so much approved by Ireland as to be by them adopted.
Mr. Herbert read the Irish statute alluded to, and said that the disposition towards Ireland which appeared in every part of the House, could not but inspire that country with every sentiment of affection to Great Britain.
I then said, that if the motion made by the noble Lord was persisted in, I should most undoubtedly not oppose it, because it was impossible for me to give opposition to any measure which had even the appearance of adding strength to the exclusive rights of Ireland; that I was of opinion myself that the jurisdiction in question was not, by any means whatever, conveyed by the Act referred to; that the statute of Henry VIII. was not intended to affect any part of the King's dominions was clear to a demonstration, from the subsequent statute of the same King in explanation of it--the preamble of which, referring to the former Act, does expressly speak of treasons committed out of this realm, _and other the King's dominions_; and that the circumstance of the adoption of the former Act by the Irish Parliament was a clear proof that it was not considered as an Act which could bind Ireland; and I could not help wishing that the noble Lord would withdraw his motion, for the reason stated by the noble Lord (Lord Nugent), that we could not repeal an Irish Act; and that without so doing, the repeal of the English statute (even if it did give any jurisdiction) would be nugatory. Besides this, there was another reason. The framers of this Bill had certainly never supposed that it could go to remove at once every difficulty which might arise, and to settle at once every point which might require to be settled when, as in the present case, a great stream was turned into a new channel. Our idea went to the unequivocal and permanent establishment of those points which were in the contemplation of Government last year, to those things to which Parliament then intended to pledge, and to which I had ever been of opinion they had inviolably pledged the faith of the nation. That by so doing, we conceived we should establish a foundation of confidence, upon which all less important points might be adjusted with mutual temper, harmony and affection; that Ireland could certainly entertain no doubt that the same principles which had guided us in the great and extensive considerations would continue to actuate our conduct in those of less concern and more confined regulation; (that in the present case, if the English Act was a grievance to Ireland, so also would the Irish be to England.)[1] At the same time, however, I begged that it might be clearly understood that this clause was not objected to on the ground of its being a new claim on the part of Ireland. Ireland had last year, in the Addresses of her Parliament, claimed to be a distinct and independent kingdom. If, therefore, this Act affected her independence--and in that light it was objected to--so far it certainly was not in any respect a new claim. To supreme legislation and supreme judicature, all criminal jurisdiction was certainly annexed and inseparable.
Lord Newhaven then withdrew his motion.
Percival said, that the exercise of this jurisdiction had been antecedent to the Act of Henry VIII.
In the Committee, Lord Beauchamp objected to the word established, which he wished to alter to the word recognized; but that, unless it was agreed to, he would not press it.
I said that, as every word of the Bill had undergone the most serious discussion, and the most attentive consideration, on both sides of the water, and that as the present form had been approved of, I wished the Bill might receive no alteration, in order that it might pass, without any possible difference of opinion, in any part of the House.
He then proposed to put for ever instead of for the future; to which I agreed.
To the last clause, to prevent the receiving writs of error, &c., I moved an addition, which was drawn by the Attorney-General in consequence of the enclosed papers from Mr. Travers. I enclose also a letter to him, which I wish you would let Bernard or Cooke copy, and send to him, with a copy of the clause in question.
Upon the whole, the business has gone off better than I expected; though I take it for granted that we shall hear again, both of the criminal judicature and of the _recognition_. Pitt offered to state the objections at large to the latter; but I thought it better not.
Lord Bellamont has written a letter in the newspapers about the criminal judicature, which I suppose you have seen. I saw him in the House, and told him the part I meant to take. He said he wished it had been inserted in the Bill, but hoped at least that I would guard against the idea of its being called a new claim. To this you will see that part of my speech was directed; and for that reason, as well as on account of the miserable statement of it in the papers of to-day, I wish that you would revise and publish it in the Irish newspapers.
After this business was over, Eden wished that Ireland might be inserted in the American Intercourse Bill. I was gone; but the Solicitor-General said that he thought it pretty extraordinary that, on the very day that the House had declared that they had no right to legislate for Ireland, that honourable gentlemen should wish to make trade laws for her.
I hope to be with you now in the course of a week; but wait for your answer to my letters, having heard nothing from you since yours of the 16th of February. Adieu.
Believe me ever, My dear brother, Most affectionately yours, W. W. G.
[Footnote 1: Query the inserting this, which I omitted in my speech.]
The letter to Mr. Townshend respecting the Irish peerages contained the expression of a desire on the part of Lord Temple to take His Majesty's pleasure on the subject of an increase of the Irish peerage. Before Lord Temple had entered on the Government of Ireland, His Majesty had communicated to him his disinclination to increase the Irish peerage at that time; but as a dissolution of Parliament was now proposed, which would involve in troublesome and expensive contests many gentlemen upon whom it was supposed His Majesty might be inclined to confer that mark of the royal favour, and who had been recommended for it by former Lord-Lieutenants, Lord Temple thought the opportunity favourable for such a creation. Mr. Townshend's answer, conveying the substance of a note he had received from the King in reply, is curiously characteristic of the imperative interest taken by His Majesty in all matters of a personal nature. After expressing His Majesty's confidence that "Lord Temple will be as sparing as possible in his list of peers," Mr. Townshend adds, "Mr. Pennington must be included in the promotions. If advances are proposed, the Dowager Lady Longford must be a Countess; and if any peer of a junior date to Lord Dartrey is advanced, he must be promoted in the same degree."
Under the circumstances in which Lord Temple was placed by the resignation of Lord Shelburne, and the delays that followed in the settlement of a new Cabinet, Lord Temple resolved to resign his Government of Ireland. Unwillingness to embarrass His Majesty unnecessarily had hitherto restrained him from carrying this resolution formally into effect; but it appears from the following letters that he transmitted his final resolution to his brother, who communicated it to Pitt. The sound judgment of Mr. Grenville is shown with remarkable clearness in his observations on Lord Temple's answer to the Duke of Portland, which was not marked with the decision demanded by the occasion; and his prudence and discretion are equally apparent in the advice he tenders to Lord Temple, upon the necessity of resigning his office into the hands of his successor, instead of throwing it up with an "appearance of fretfulness and intemperance." The contrast between the temperaments of these distinguished men is frequently felt throughout this Correspondence, in the traits of calm, practical wisdom which will be found on the one side, affectionately checking and controlling the tendency to hasty constructions and impatient action that existed on the other.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, March 6th, 1783.
My dearest Brother,
I have just received your letter of the 1st instant, and need not, I am sure, attempt, what I could not do--the expressing the happiness and exultation of my mind, and the joy which I receive from a determination which, however repugnant it may be to my interests, is perfectly and entirely consonant to every feeling, to every opinion, and to every wish of my heart, public and private. With respect, however, to one part of your letter, I must own to you--and I take the first moment to do it--that after a very serious and deliberate consideration, I should feel great repugnance to the idea of Lincoln's Inn, and that for reasons which I hope soon to detail to you in person; though I will certainly not leave London till something is settled.
Nothing has happened since my letter of this day's date, which you will probably receive with or before this. The general idea is that the King is determined to hold out against the Duke of Portland and Fox. How this can be done, I protest I do not see, except by Pitt's accepting the offer which was made to him. Lord Gower and the Chancellor were the only two people with the King yesterday.
Your letter has confirmed Jemmy in the idea, which was originally his, and not mine, of the disgrace of being transferred with the Standishes, &c., &c. Adieu.
My dearest brother, Ever most truly and affectionately yours, W. W. G.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, March 12th, 1783.
My dear Brother,
Before you receive this, which is intended to go by the post, you will most probably have received a messenger from me with the particulars of the new arrangement which is going on. Lest any delay should arise, I just write by this conveyance to let you know that the King has this day again seen Lord North, and acquainted him that he was content to waive his objection to the Duke of Portland's being at the head of the Treasury and that he desired that a scheme of a Ministry might be submitted to him on that idea. From him Lord North went to the Duke of Portland; what has been the result I know not.
I am sure you will excuse me if I own to you that I do not quite like your letter to the Duke of Portland, a copy of which I received from you last night. My objection to it is, that it seems to court too much, what I understand it will produce, a second application upon the subject. I subscribe much too heartily to your reasons to imagine, and still less to wish, that this application may be successful; on the contrary, I own I should have desired that room had not been given for it, which I think is rather too much the case. In other respects I like the letter perfectly.
I cannot close this without expressing to you what I feel upon the reception this night of a letter from Bernard, informing me of your goodness to him, and full of gratitude and acknowledgments to you upon the subject; it has most truly relieved my mind from what has been a burthen upon it.
Adieu, my dearest brother, Believe me ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, March 13th, 1783.
My dear Brother,
I have just received yours of the 7th, and am utterly at a loss to imagine what Mornington can have stated to you which has given you apprehensions about the Irish Bill. It has passed the House of Commons without a single dissentient voice in any one stage of it, and I know of no considerable opposition likely to be made to it in the House of Lords, except possibly from the Chancellor or Lord Loughborough.
In all events, I should hope you would very seriously reconsider the two ideas which you throw out. That of a precipitate departure, before the arrival of your successor, would bear so very strongly the appearance of fretfulnesss and intemperance, and would be liable to so many ill consequences in Ireland that might arise, and would all be imputed to you, that I own I should deprecate it in the most eager manner, especially as I should think you would most fully acquit yourself, both to your own character and to the peace of the two kingdoms, by protesting against such a measure, and by declaring your intention of remaining only till you could deliver over the Sword of State to some person authorized to receive it.
With respect to the other, it brings back very strongly to my mind what I felt and still feel on the subject of Eden's conduct last year. I cannot think that we are either of us justifiable in withholding from persons in the King's Government any information upon the situation of Ireland; but that, on the contrary, the best mode of enforcing acquiescence in your wishes as to the Bill, would be by a communication of opinions on the subject. Such a communication must of course be made with prudence and caution, always bearing in mind the essential difference between committing ourselves to a friend and to a foe. But still, as to facts and leading outlines, I think we have no choice.
As your letter does not imply any wish of a particular secresy on the subject (although it is certainly not a thing to be wantonly proclaimed), I thought it would be a sort of return for confidential communications which I have transmitted to you, and a step liable to no objections, to state your intention to Pitt. Jemmy's opinion agreeing with mine, I took an opportunity in a few words to say that an intimation had been made to you of a wish that you should continue, in case the arrangement under the Duke of Portland should take place, and that you had thought yourself bound to decline it. (I did not think myself at liberty to mention the Duke of Portland's letter specifically, as it is marked _secret_, although the thing itself is well known and talked of.)
His answer was very much the kind of thing I expected, expressing his great satisfaction that your ideas on the subject of the late Opposition and new Government concurred with his, and at the same time his concern and apprehensions on the subject of the effect likely to be produced in Ireland by such an event. I only added, that he would easily see that although it was a thing which must in a few days be publicly known, still it ought not to be talked of beforehand.
I have expressed to you in my letter of last night what I feel upon your goodness to Bernard. To these I am now to add my acknowledgments of your kind wishes in my behalf. I will not pretend to say that I am indifferent on the subject, but I can with the greatest truth and sincerity assure you that I feel much more pleasure and satisfaction in the affection and love towards me which produces those wishes, than I could in the accomplishment of them to their utmost extent. And whilst I continue to possess that affection, I shall look with much less anxiety to other objects which are in my estimation of so much less value.
In these sentiments believe me, my dearest brother,
Ever most affectionately yours, W.W.G.
Upon reading this over, I find I have said not a word about a Ministry. Lord North saw the King yesterday, and from him went to the Duke of Portland; but at twelve o'clock to-day I know from authority that the latter had not seen the King, and that no name was fixed for any one department; which is, in a few words, all that I know.
I enclose a letter from Tonson, with my answer.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Friday, March 14th, 1783.
My dear Brother,
We are now not a step forwarder than we were at this time two days ago. The King commissioned Lord North to submit a plan of Government, with the Duke of Portland at the Treasury. This has not been done; nor has the King sent for the Duke of Portland, who expected that step to have been taken.
What transpires about arrangements is as follows; Pitt not to join them (_upon which you may depend_); Lord North to name a colleague to Fox, who is to be Lord Stormont, _if he will accept_; Lord Dartmouth to be of the Cabinet; Twitcher, Privy Seal; G. North, Treasurer of the Navy; Grey Cooper, Jemmy's successor (at which his noble spirit is offended); Lord J. Cavendish, Chancellor of the Exchequer; Fitzpatrick, talked of for Secretary-at-War; Lord Keppel to return. Query, whether he is by this means to be in the Cabinet with Twitcher? I think he should appoint St. Hugh a Junior Lord.
So good night to you. _Amiciteae sempitereae inimicetrae placabiles._
These arrangements were dependant on the issue of negotiations that underwent fresh modifications from day to day. In the meantime Lord Temple had sent in his resignation. His Lordship's conduct on this occasion was as creditable to his integrity as it was illustrative of his temperament. He appears to have accompanied the official despatch tendering his resignation with a private letter to the King, which Mr. Grenville, acting on his own discretion, withheld. Lord Temple, devoted to the principles and the party of the late Marquis of Rockingham, and regarding the alliance of the Duke of Portland, Mr. Fox, and others of that party, with Lord North, as a gross dereliction of principle, did not hesitate to allude personally to them in the communication to His Majesty, under the impression that the coalition was then actually formed, and that in his public and onerous position he was bound to state the grounds upon which he felt himself imperatively called upon to resign. The coalition, however, was not yet concluded; although, on the 13th of March, General Cuninghame confidently announced to Lord Temple that a new Administration was to be declared the next day, and that that was the last letter he should have to write to him on such idle subjects; entering circumstantially, at the same time, into the disposal of the various offices, and assigning an equal division of the Cabinet to Fox and Lord North, with the moderate Duke of Portland at the head. Mr. Grenville, whose caution in reference to such transactions had been disciplined by experience, and who always brought the most temperate judgment to bear upon situations of delicacy and embarrassment, saw the imprudence of committing Lord Temple to expressions that supposed a state of things which did not actually exist, or which, if it should be brought about, would consign his letter to the "very worst hands into which it could fall." Lord Temple, in Dublin, harassed by delays, and surrounded by increasing difficulties in his Government, could not decide this point so clearly as Mr. Grenville in London; and the sequel, which furnished his Lordship with a legitimate opportunity of stating his views and feelings to the King, amply justified the course adopted.
In the following letter, Mr. Grenville details the substance of his interview with the King, arising out of Lord Temple's resignation. It possesses the highest historical value, taken in connection with the letters that follow, for the full and minute information it affords of the course of those secret negotiations which finally terminated in the establishment of the coalition.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.
Pall Mall, March 17th, 1733.
My dear Brother,
I received your packet of the 12th instant last night, and immediately sent to Lord Sydney your despatch of resignation. He forwarded it to the King, who immediately directed him to send me to Buckingham House, where I was with him above two hours.
I felt myself under much difficulty about your letter. It was evidently written on the supposition of a Government being formed by the Duke of Portland and Fox, in conjunction with Lord North; and to that point its whole reasoning was directed. Now the present situation in which we are, seems to tend to some different solution; and this idea was very much strengthened by the King's note to Lord Sydney, desiring to see me, in order to talk with me about your staying, _at least for the present_. This being the case, I was apprehensive that some parts of your letter might possibly pledge you further to him than you would like in other contingencies which might turn up; and I also thought that a letter of that sort would come with more force from you in answer to what I should undoubtedly be commissioned to say to you. To this was added a most serious apprehension, which had struck both Jemmy and myself very forcibly, as to the prudence of committing yourself to him by so very strong language on the subject of the Duke of Portland and Fitzpatrick by name, and under your hand-writing; which paper, even supposing no ill use was ever to be made of it by the person to whom it is addressed, might, in the space possibly even of a few hours, by any sudden accident, fall into _other_ hands, perhaps at this moment the very worst into which it could fall.