Part 14

The Court met this morning at nine o’clock, and the names of the Jury having been called over, and Thistlewood and the other prisoners being put to the bar, the evidence for the prosecution was continued.

ELEANOR WALKER examined by Mr. Gurney.--I am servant to Henry Rogers: he lives at No. 4, Fox-court, Gray’s-Inn-lane. We had a lodger named Brunt. He occupied two rooms on the second floor. They were front rooms. In January a lodger came, introduced by Brunt. This was a month or five weeks before Brunt was taken up. He (Brunt) said the lodger lately came from the country, and he wanted a room; and as we had one to let, he wished him to have it. The room was unfurnished. He paid three shillings a week for it. He (the lodger) said he might not bring his goods in for a week or better. He never brought any in to my knowledge. I do not think I should know him again. I do not remember having heard him called by his name. The room he took was a two-pair back room.

This witness was not cross-examined.

Re-called.--While this person occupied the room, I heard persons frequently go up stairs.

MARY ROGERS, the aunt and mistress of the last witness, examined by Mr. Gurney.--The room was let by my maid while I was out. After the lodger had been in the house for a week, I said to Mr. Brunt, “You have brought a lodger.” He said, “Yes, I have, and I hope he will pay you. I know nothing of the man, but seeing him at a public-house, and seeing him want a room.” He said he was a butcher out of work. He paid me for four or five weeks. I cannot say whether he ever slept there; he did not to my knowledge. I and my maid in the evening saw three men coming up stairs. The one in the middle was a black man. The light from my room was on their faces. At other times I heard persons going up stairs, but took no particular notice.

This witness was not cross-examined.

JOSEPH HALE, a young lad, the apprentice of Brunt, examined by Mr. Gurney.--I am apprentice to Brunt. I have served two years and better of my apprenticeship. I lived with him in Fox-court. I remember a person coming to lodge there in January. His name was Ings, a butcher. Brunt and he looked at the room. Brunt said, “It will do; go down and give them a shilling.” After that Ings used to come to the room. The key was mostly left in the front room, and Ings used to come there for it. Persons used sometimes to come to the room before my master was taken up. This was every evening. I saw different persons. They were Ings, Tidd, Thistlewood, Bradburn, Edwards, Hall, Potter, and Strange. I remember a man named Adams: he came. Davidson, the black man, came also. Others used to come, but I do not recollect them. They used to stay nearly about two hours. There was no furniture in the room that ever I saw. They used to take chairs in, out of the front room. I did not hear any of their conversation. They used to call Thistlewood sometimes T., his initial, and sometimes Arthur. I once saw the door of Ings’s room open, and saw some long poles, like branches of trees cut rough; I suppose about twenty of them. I sometimes heard hammering and sawing in the room. My master was taken on Thursday, the 24th of February. On the Sunday before that there was a meeting in the room. There were more that morning than ever I had seen come up before. All the persons whom I have named were there that morning. After the meeting broke up I saw Strange in my master’s room. There was no meeting on the Monday evening. There was no meeting on Tuesday. On the Wednesday there were several persons going in and out. Some of them came into the front room, where I worked. They got some pistols, and were putting new flints in them. There were five or six pistols. One of the men said there were people overlooking them from the next house, and Brunt told them to go to the back room. Strange and a man whom I did not know were the men who had the pistols. I cannot say how many I saw go in and out. I saw Thistlewood that day. In the afternoon he asked me for a sheet of writing-paper. I gave him one. He took it, I believe, into the back room.

My master after this came out of the back room, and desired me to get six sheets of cartridge paper. He gave me sixpence. I bought the paper and gave it to him, and he took it into the back room. This was about four or five in the afternoon. I heard people going down stairs between five and six. My master was in and out several times. He went away finally about six. There was a man went with him. It was not one of the men I used to see there. A table had been taken that day from my mistress’s room to the back room. I wanted the table, and went for it. I knocked at the door, and Potter opened it. There were four or five in the room besides Potter. After my master was gone, I saw Tidd between seven and eight. Mrs. Brunt called him, and he came into her room. She showed him a pike-head and a sword. She asked him what she should do with them. She then gave them to him, and he took them out of the room into the back room. After this I heard some persons go down stairs. Tidd left a message, that if any persons called they should be sent to the White Hart. Some persons did call on my master, and I went to show them to the White Hart. Potter came, and he went. He knew the way himself. There were three came to whom I shewed the way.

My master came home that night at about nine o’clock. I observed his dress was dirty. He appeared confused. I heard him say to his wife, it was all up, or words to that effect. He said that where he had been, a great many officers had come in. He said he had saved his life, and that was all. Just as he said this, another man came in. I do not know that man. Brunt shook hands with him, and asked him if he knew who had informed. The man said, no. The man then said, he had had a dreadful blow on the side, which knocked him down. Brunt then said, “There is something to be done yet.” After this Brunt and the other man went away together. Mrs. Brunt and I after this went to Ings’s room. I saw several rolls of brown paper with tar in them. I saw only one pole remaining. I saw something rolled up, and tied round with strings. I understood them to be hand-grenades. I saw an iron pot belonging to Brunt. My master came in about eleven o’clock. He told me to get up in the morning as soon as I could and clean his boots. They were very dirty. He called me in the morning at half past six, and when I got up he asked me if I knew the Borough. I told him yes. He then asked if I knew Snow’s-fields. I said no. He then went into the back room and put the things out of the cupboard into two baskets; one of which was afterwards put into a blue apron belonging to Mrs. Brunt. This apron had before this been as a curtain in Ings’s room.

My master told me that Potter lived in Snow’s fields. When we had the baskets ready, two officers came in and took my master into custody. I knew where Tidd lived. He lived in the Hole-in-the-Wall-passage, Brooks’-market. Adams lived next door.

Cross-examined by Mr. Adolphus.--My master is a journeyman shoemaker: not a very poor man. Adams is also a shoemaker. Ings had the lodgings five weeks. I believe they had meetings there every night. I thought there were about twenty persons there on the Sunday. I know some of the prisoners. Strange is a boot-seller--selling boots in a shop. Edwards was an artist. Edwards was there very often: oftener than Adams--almost every day. Hall was a journeyman tailor, I believe. I don’t know where he lives. I cannot say how many persons were there at one time on Wednesday. The baskets used by my master were rush baskets. As near as I can guess there were about twenty poles. They were branches of trees in a green raw state. I believe they kept a fire in Ings’s room. I do not know whether the poles were cut up to light the fire or not.

THOMAS SMART examined by Mr. Littledale.--I am a watchman of the parish of St. George, Hanover-square. I was on watch on the south side of Grosvenor-square, on Tuesday the 22d of February. I went there about eight o’clock. About half-past eight I saw four suspicious men walking the square. I thought they were after no good; one of them was a dark man, and the other a tall man. I watched them. They were looking down the areas. Charles Bissix’s box is at the west side of the square.

Cross-examined by Mr. Curwood.--It was not a very uncommon thing to see suspicious men walking about.

HENRY GILLAN examined by Mr. Bolland.--I am a servant to Mr. Whittle, apothecary, at 15, Mount-street, Grosvenor-square. I sometimes use the Rising-sun public-house. It is in Charles-street, which runs into Grosvenor-square and Mount-street. I was there on Tuesday the 22d of February. I saw that short man (pointing to the prisoner Brunt) there. There was a tall man with him. They had some bread and cheese and porter. There were dominos on the table, and the short man challenged me to play with him. I played two games with him, and left the house before ten, leaving them there.

JOHN HECTOR MORRIS examined by the Attorney-General.--I am a journeyman cutler to Mr. Underwood, in Drury-lane. I remember on Christmas-eve a man brought a sword to my master’s shop. The man was habited like a butcher. He drew the sword from under his smock-frock, without a scabbard. He wished to have it ground sharp, particularly at the point. He said to put the name of Inns on it; but I am hard of hearing, and it might be Ings. He called for it in a few days. In about a fortnight he brought another sword to have it sharpened in the same way. It was much longer than the other. [Here the witness identified the prisoner Ings as the man who brought the swords.] I should know the swords again.

EDWARD SIMPSON examined by the Attorney-General.--I am a corporal major of the 2nd Regiment of Life-Guards. I know a person named Harrison. He was in the Guards. (Here he identified Harrison.) He was discharged in 1814. When I knew him, he was in King-street barracks, Portman-square. He had an opportunity of knowing them. Part of the barracks looked into Gloucester Mews. There was a loft with five windows looking into it. There was hay and straw in that loft; the windows had been stopped up since the Cato-street business.

Cross-examined by Mr. Curwood.--I don’t know how many men are in Knightsbridge barracks; they would hold about 300.

JAMES ADAMS examined by the Attorney-General.--I am a pawnbroker in Berwick-street. I know the prisoner Davidson from his having pledged things at my shop. He came on the 23d of February, in the morning, and took a brass-barrelled blunderbuss out of pledge.

This witness was not cross-examined.

THOMAS HYDEN examined by Mr. Gurney.--I am a cow-keeper. I was formerly a member of a shoemakers’ club. I knew Wilson there. I saw him a few days before the 23d of February; he met me in the street, and made a proposition to me. He asked me if I would be one of a party to destroy his Majesty’s Ministers; he said they were waiting for a cabinet dinner, and that all things were ready. He told me they had a sort of things which I never saw; they were called by the name of hand-grenades,--and, he said, he depended on me to be one. He said that Mr. Thistlewood would be glad to see me, if I would be one. He said, the use to be made of the hand-grenades was to be put under the table, at the cabinet dinner, with the fuse alight, and those who escaped were to be destroyed by the sword or some other weapon. He also said that fires were to be lighted, and the town to be kept in confusion for several days, till the thing became general. He named some houses. Lord Harrowby’s, Lord Castlereagh’s, Lord Wellington’s, Lord Sidmouth’s, the Bishop of London’s, and several others which I do not remember. I told him I would make one. This was, I believe, four or five days before the Cato-street business. Before that I went to Lord Harrowby’s. I do not remember the day. I followed his Lordship in the park. I gave him a note. On Wednesday, the 23d, I saw Wilson again. I believe it was between four and five o’clock in the afternoon. I met him in Manchester-street, Manchester-square. He said, “Hyden, you are the very man I wanted to see.” I asked him what there was going to be; and he said, there was to be a cabinet dinner at Lord Harrowby’s, Grosvenor-square. He told me I was to go to the Horse and Groom public-house, the corner of Cato-street. I was to go in there, or otherwise I was to wait at the corner until I was _shoved_ into a stable close by. I asked him the hour, and he said about half past five or a quarter before six. I then asked him how many there were to be, and he said twenty or thirty. I asked him, was that all there was going to be? and he said, there was to be another party in the Borough, another in Gray’s Inn-lane, and another in Gee’s-court, or in the city. He said, all Gee’s-court were in it; but they would not act till after the English began, as they had so often deceived them before. Gee’s-court is inhabited by Irish. It is at the St. Giles’s end of Oxford-street. He also said there was a gentleman’s servant supporting them with money; and, if they would act on the subject, he would give them a great deal more. He asked me if I had a gun; and I said yes, but it was only a _rubbishing_ one. He then said they would provide me with a gun, and something to work with. There were, he also said, two pieces of cannon in Gray’s Inn-lane, which they could get by breaking in a small door. He said there were four pieces of cannon in the Artillery Ground, and they could be very easily taken, by killing the sentinel. After they left Grosvenor-square, they were to meet near the Mansion-house. I was told to come to my time, or the thing would be done before I came.

I went to John-street that evening; it was nearly seven o’clock. The entrance to Cato-street is a little gateway from John-street. When I got there I saw Wilson and Davidson; I had seen him (Davidson) before. Davidson said I was come, and he asked me if I would go in. I said no, as I was going somewhere else to look for some cream. He said if I would go in, Mr. Thistlewood was there. I asked him what time I should be there, and he said eight o’clock. If I were not there in time, he said, I was to follow them down to Grosvenor-square, and, at the fourth house from the corner, at the bottom of the square, I should find them.

Cross-examined by Mr. Adolphus.--I am not certain whether the first conversation I had with Wilson was before the Sunday, before the Cato-street business. I am not quite certain. It was four or five days before. I am not able to say what day I gave the information to Lord Harrowby. It might be a day or two before I saw Wilson in Manchester-street. The conversation with Wilson was in Manchester-street; we were walking up and down the street.

A note was here put into witness’s hand, which he said was the one given by him to Lord Harrowby. It was in his own hand-writing.

Cross-examined.--The reason why I gave the note to Lord Harrowby was, because I could not see Lord Castlereagh.--I did not call at Lord Castlereagh’s house, but I went three or four times near the house, in order to see him. I did not see him, and then I gave the note to Lord Harrowby. I am certain that in Wilson’s conversation with me, the words, “His Majesty’s Ministers,” were used.

The EARL of HARROWBY examined from the bench by the Attorney-General.--I reside in Grosvenor-square, on the south side, near Charles-street, next door to the Archbishop of York’s. I am a Privy-Councillor, and one of his Majesty s Ministers. I am President of the Council, and one of the Cabinet. On the 23d of February last, I intended giving a cabinet dinner; I think it was on Wednesday, the 23d. Only those who compose the Cabinet are invited to Cabinet dinners. I believe the invitations went out the latter part of the week before, but my head servant can speak to that more correctly. Invitations were sent to the Lord Chancellor; to the Earl of Liverpool, the First Lord of the Treasury; to Mr. Vansittart, the chancellor of the Exchequer; to Earl Bathurst, the Secretary of State for the Colonial department; to Lord Sidmouth, the Secretary of State for the Home Department; to Lord Castlereagh, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs; the Duke of Wellington, Master General of the Ordnance; Mr. Canning, the First Commissioner of the India Board; Mr. Robinson, President of the Board of Trade; Mr. B. Bathurst, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster; Mr. Wellesley Pole, the Master of the Mint; and the Earl of Mulgrave; all these are Privy-Councillors. They are employed in the different offices I have mentioned, and also form what is called the Cabinet. In common parlance they are called his Majesty’s Ministers. On the Tuesday before the intended dinner, I was riding in the Park without a servant. It was about two o’clock. I went to a Council at Carlton-House. I am not positive as to the hour. As I came near Grosvenor-gate a person met me, and asked me if I was Lord Harrowby. I said, yes. He said he wished to give a note to Lord Castlereagh, which was of considerable importance to him and to myself. He then gave me a letter. After some further conversation, he gave me a card, with his address. I saw the man again by appointment on Wednesday morning in the ring, among the young plantations in Hyde-Park. The dinner did not take place at my house on Wednesday. The preparations went on as if the parties were to dine together, until I wrote a note from the Earl of Liverpool’s to my head servant, to say the Cabinet would not dine there. It would be seven, or half past, at which the party would dine.

[Illustration:

_Wivell Del^t._ _Cooper Sculp._

JOHN MONUMENT.]

Cross-examined by Mr. Curwood.--I had some general knowledge of some conspiracy, or something of the kind, going on before this. I do not know a person named Edwards. We had some general information a considerable time before this, that some plan was in agitation, but we did not know the time at which it was to take place, or the

## particulars. I will not say to two months. It was some considerable

time before this.

JOHN BAKER examined by the Attorney-General.--I am butler to Lord Harrowby. The cards of invitation were issued for the cabinet dinner on the 18th, or 19th. It was about eight in the evening of the 23d when I first knew that the Cabinet were not to dine at my Lord Harrowby’s. The preparations for it went on till then. The Archbishop of York lives next door to my Lord Harrowby’s. I can’t say whether his grace had company on the 23d of February. I noticed several carriages draw up at his door.

JOHN MONUMENT examined by the Solicitor-General.--I am by trade a shoemaker. I generally live near Brooks’-market, but I am now a prisoner in the Tower. I know the prisoner Thistlewood. I met him at the house of one Ford some weeks before the transactions of the 23d of February. He afterwards called upon me at my lodgings. He was not alone. Brunt was with him. He told me that he wanted to speak with me in private. In consequence I went out of the room with him, my mother and brother being at that time in the room with me. Brunt staid behind when I went out. Thistlewood then said to me, “Great events are now close at hand--the people are every where anxious for a change. He had been promised support by a great many men, who had deceived him, but he had now got men who would stand by him.”

He then asked me if I had any arms. I said, “No, I had not.” He said, that every man of them, that is, of those who were attached to him, had arms, pikes, pistols, or sabres; and added, that I might buy a pistol for four or five shillings. I said that I was too poor to buy one. He replied, that if such were the case, he would see what could be done for me. Brunt called upon me again in four or five days. He said, that he could not stay long with me; there were several more men of his trade waiting to see him on this business, and he must call on them. I did not see him afterwards for some time. He called, however, again upon me on the Tuesday previous to the 23d. I then told him that I thought I had lost him, as he had staid away so very long. He replied, that owing to the King’s death, an alteration had taken place in their plans. I asked what those plans were. He said that I should know them better at a meeting to be held the night afterwards, than he could tell me. I asked him where the meeting was to be. He said at Tyburn-turnpike. He did not tell me what was to be done there.

I asked him if I was to see any persons there how I was to know them as friends, and requested him to give me the word. Brunt then told me, that if I saw any persons about, I was to say B-U-T; and if they were friends, they would say T-O-N. He would, however, call on me the following morning, and tell me more particulars.