Part 13

I had what they call the Texas Thinshell black walnut. I have one tree that is about eight or nine feet high, maybe ten feet high, had 45 nuts on it, nice big ones, and they just looked like mummies, and it made me heartsick, of course. I went out there and looked at the things, and they fell off the tree. I thought, "Well, I might just as well experiment. I will dig me a little trench here along the garden, I will put these in and see what happens." To my surprise 20 of them came up after being frozen. So that might be a question: Will things sprout or germinate without reaching maturity?[17] I don't know how much maturity they had. They certainly weren't in full growth when they were frozen. That's one thing we want to see.

My main aim is just to grow things, for hobby purposes and see just what will grow. Last year we had such a hectic year from that late spring freeze and early fall freeze it discouraged me here where I am, in this frost pocket at an elevation of 1,050 feet. And I said, "Now, on the hill about 4 miles away and 300 feet higher they have a wonderful place for peaches." I have a friend who lives up there, and he has so many peach trees missing in his old orchard. I said, "How about setting out some nut trees in your peach orchard?" Ho said, "Go to it." I set out a nut tree wherever there is a peach tree out. So that gave me a chance to see what they would do. Last spring I started that too late, but I set out 45 or 50 trees, filberts, Persian walnuts, pecans, chestnuts and persimmons, and I will just see what they will do.

And today my kind friend who gave a talk on the nut trees from down in Alabama gave me seed to plant. I expect to put a row of those out and see what they will do. The land I am planting them on at one time was just a great mass of chestnuts, and this friend there on one of those sections, of about three acres, had cut 35,000 feet of this dead timber after the chestnut blight killed them.

That blight was a terrible shock to us. One thing I did note when it came on, prior to the chestnut blight in that country there were these little chipmunks, which, everybody knows, eat chestnuts. You couldn't hear yourself think for the little chipmunks chipping all over the country. You know, they carried off all the nuts. You had to be smart to beat them to them. When the chestnuts disappeared, the chipmunks disappeared, and there were eight or ten years when you were lucky if you got to hear one. In the meantime those little fellows have changed. They died, a lot of them, but now they have learned to eat something else, and now they are coming back.

That little chipmunk always amused me, because I loved to go out and play with the squirrels and things like that. Anyhow, it's just pure hobby work, and as Mr. Shadow says you can get over a mad spell and get out close to nature, because in this nut work you can't get any closer to God's work than to get out and get something better. I think that's all I have to say.

[Footnote 17: Some other members have reported similar behavior of frost-bitten and poorly filled black walnuts.--Ed.]

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President Davidson: Those of you who know Mr. Frye know that he works as well as he talks, and that's pretty good.

Is Mr. Tatum here? (No response.) In that case I am told that Dr. Rohrbacher will read a paper by Mr. Tatum of Lebanon, Kentucky on "A Look, Backward and Forward, Into Nut Growing in Kentucky." Dr Rohrbacher.

A Look "Backward and Forward" into Nut Growing in Kentucky

W. G. TATUM, Route 4, Lebanon, Kentucky

The lumberman's ax, the chestnut blight, forest fires, and the "new ground" hill farmer, together, have destroyed many thousands of our beautiful Kentucky forest acres. Much of this one time "nature lover's paradise" is now ugly, barren, and eroded, and too poor to give a living to either man or beast. Wanton destruction of God-given treasure and beauty is a sin and a shame. Thanks to the men of vision and foresight of the U.S.D.A., state agricultural colleges, and our own fraternity of nut tree lovers, this slaughter is coming to a halt at last. Our fellow citizens are being awakened to the real value of their woodlands. Much reforestation of these steep barren wastes is already under way.

We, of THE NORTHERN NUT GROWERS ASSOCIATION, INC., can look back to many mistakes we have made in the selection of varieties for our respective climates and soils. Our dates and methods of grafting, budding, and transplanting have not always been right. We have gotten hold of scionwood that we were most sure would not grow when we used it, but we did use it, hoping, and most of it did fail, as we expected.

In our Association, we have a large group of wise experimenters on varieties and methods, well placed all over the U. S. and I have every confidence that, in time, many commercially profitable varieties, and better methods will reward their research. But in the meantime, we should all keep ever on the alert for a new and better idea, or variety.

Here in Central Kentucky, of the many black walnuts I have under test, only Thomas, Victoria, and Eureka have the tendency toward young and heavy bearing. These three do show great promise in my section as young and heavy croppers. And they are all top-bracket nuts, according to tests made by expert testers. There may be newer ones better than these, and we hope there will be yet better ones turn up continually in the future.

There are at least a few Persian walnuts that show promise in my location. Of varieties I have of bearing age, only four are worthy of mention. These are Broadview, Elmore, "Crath-Dunstan No. I" and "Crath-Edmunds No. 3." All of the above have borne well on two year old grafts on large black walnut stocks. Their nuts are in my opinion excellent.

Wright and Walters heartnuts seem well adapted here, and are doing equally well for me on Japanese, butternut, and black rootstocks. These are the only two I have old enough to bear, and they are bearing their first few nuts each this season. I would like to add here, that the wild nut crop in general in my section, is very light, and these nut trees that I mention as bearing this season, are the more to be noticed for their crops in this year of bad nut crops. I am trying "buartnuts" and butternuts, which are growing satisfactorily, but not large enough for a crop.

This is wonderful natural chestnut territory. All of the many Chinese seedlings I have, and the few grafted ones, are growing nicely, and quite a number have burs on them when only about belt high to an average man. I am anxious to get graftwood of superior individuals as they come out, for propagation here in my own planting. I believe this to be a good home for any good chestnut. No blight is showing to date in either my seedlings or grafted ones.

I live on rather deep, fertile upland, and am quite hopeful of good results from many of the Northern pecan varieties that I am trying. The oldest trees I have are only five years old, on small seedling stocks and hardly old enough to yield a crop for at least another five years. Major, Greenriver, Busseron, and Fisher are my oldest, and are making rapid growth. Stuart, of the Southern group, is bearing quite well for my friend, Lewis Edmunds, a few miles southwest of me, and he says it matures its nuts well before frost, but insects cause a goodly part of the crop to fall prematurely.

I have quite a collection of the better known grafted shagbarks on my woodland. These are mostly on wild shagbark stocks. They are all growing well, but I have had no nuts from them as yet. Grainger is the fastest grower of the lot.

To make my nut tree project complete, I have quite a long row of filberts and hazels, set hedge row fashion, which include quite a list of varieties. Those that bear quite regular and heavy crops include four "Jones Hybrids," Winkler hazel, two un-named hazels, and Barcelona filbert.

I have persimmons, too, both American and Chinese named varieties. My Chinese are young and not bearing yet, but doing well. Kansas and Josephine are my choice of the natives.

I am trying Millwood and Shessler honeylocusts for the first time this year. They are beautiful grafts, and I am looking forward to the pleasure and profit of adding them to my hill cow pasture in a year or two.

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President Davidson: Thank you, very much, Dr. Rohrbacher. We have 15 minutes before the next order comes on the program. Suppose you take a recess right now.

(A recess was taken.)

(Mr. William J. Wilson from Georgia showed moving pictures of his pecan orchard.)

President Davidson: The next order of business, we will now hear a report of the Committee on Black Walnut Standards and Judging by Dr. L. H. MacDaniels.

Round Table Discussion on Judging Schedule for Black Walnuts

DR. L. H. MacDANIELS, Chairman

Dr. MacDaniels: During the year your committee has worked on the problem of setting up a judging schedule for black walnuts, mainly through correspondence. Unfortunately, it has not been possible to get together for discussion. Had we done so, I'm sure we could have achieved close agreement upon essentials. As it is, there are several phases of the problem upon which we would like the judgment of the association members. As far as this group here is concerned, I am quite sure that we can't profitably go into a discussion of the various details and ramifications of a judging schedule. I do think, however, that we might discuss the problem of whether our point of view in developing such a schedule should be that of the value of a variety for the commercial buyer or for home use. As far as the committee is concerned, Mr. Chase favors the home use angle. Clarence Reed and Mr. Stoke have not expressed themselves definitely one way or the other. Mr. Stoke is here, and I expect that he will say something about it.

I would like to open discussion on this question at this time, unless you want to go back to the consideration of whether it is desirable or possible, to have any such schedule, at all. May we assume that this is desirable?

Mr. Weber: Could we have a double standard, one for the commercial grower and one for the home grower?

Dr. MacDaniels: In my judgment it would be better to try one at a time.

Another schedule can be developed later.

Mr. Weber: Have you any particular preference, Dr. MacDaniels?

Dr. MacDaniels: I personally feel that the new and improved varieties will find their best use as a home proposition rather than in the commercial orchard, because apparently with a modern cracker the common wild nuts can be cracked in pieces that are satisfactory for the commercial trade, and crackability is of little moment.

Have you any comments as to which point of view the committee should take?

Dr. Crane: I would like to inquire as to the purpose for which this numerical score or method of evaluating these nuts is to be used. Is it to be used for show purposes, or is it for determining the value of a variety of nut to grow?

Dr. MacDaniels: The purpose of setting up a schedule is to provide a standard by which we can determine differences between samples in contests, and to give a basis for comparison in determining the value of a variety for growing in various climatic zones and of different varieties grown in the same place. For instance, the variety, Thomas, in one zone would be a very good nut and have a score of, say, 89. In another it might have a score of only 45, and in another a score of 55. The score would be directly related to the adaptability of this variety to a climatic zone or to a system of cultivation or to variation in any other environmental condition.

Mr. Weber: How do the other members of the committee feel about it? What is their preference? It seems to me that if you are unanimous, all we have to do is approve your report and leave out the discussion.

Dr. MacDaniels: We are not unanimous. Mr. Reed, who I regret is not here, rather doubts that any kind of schedule is either possible or desirable. Would you think that is a fair statement, Mr. Stoke?

Mr. Stoke: Yes.

Dr. MacDaniels: Mr. Chase believes that a schedule is both possible and desirable and that we should work along the general ideas advanced in the paper on judging schedules published in the last volume of the report. As I understand Mr. Stoke's position, he would go along with that in general with possibly the addition of the factors of taste and color. Is that right?

Mr. Stoke: Yes, taste and color for domestic use.

Dr. MacDaniels: I have already stated my position. I feel that unless we confine the schedule to characteristics that can be weighed or measured successfully its value and usefulness will be little.

A Member: Dr. MacDaniels, if a man has a $20,000 machine for cracking walnuts and he has a choice between the Thomas walnut and a good wild one, he will pay a little bit more for Thomas walnuts, will he not?

Dr. MacDaniels: The question raised is that if a cracking plant which cracks thousands of pounds can get more kernels out of a hundred pounds of Thomas nuts or any other grafted variety, would the operators pay something more for them? I think undoubtedly they would, but would they pay enough of a differential over the wild nuts to make it worthwhile to the grower? I don't know.

Dr. Crane: If you take pecans which are our best example, 95 per cent of all nuts produced in the United States are marketed as shelled kernels, and there is a very substantial price differential between seedlings and budded pecans, and the crackers will pay the difference based on the yield of kernels. That is their only interest. The thickness of shell, how well it cracks, or any other factor is of no importance. If the kernels are there, they will get them out.

Dr. MacDaniels: That is the crux of this whole matter. Are we interested in developing varieties for cracking in which we care little about the size of the pieces recovered or about the ease of extraction, or do we want nuts for home use that will give a high yield of large pieces? These machines, as I understand it, will crack the walnuts and get the kernels out in small pieces regardless of how they crack in a Hershey cracker.

Mr. Weber: As I understood Mr. Mullins, he favored having a lot of Thomas if he could get them.

Dr. MacDaniels: Would he pay the difference? I don't know. Dr. Crane says he would.

President Davidson: When I talked to him--we passed through there and saw the plant--he said he thinks well enough of the better nuts to come here for the purpose of learning where and how to manage a plantation of his own of Thomas and the other budded varieties for his own cracking plant. In his own cracking plant the yield for the amount of labor expended is so much better on the improved varieties that he wants to make a planting of his own. He will pay more, but just how much more, I don't know.

That brings up another matter. As I have said before, our state authorities should be urged again and again and again to buy _good_ seed nuts for distribution to the public so that we can get these better quality nuts into the woods. Some of them are agreeing to that. Some of them are doing it. But so far not very much has been done.

Dr. MacDaniels: I think that before your committee goes ahead we must get a decision on this point, for the approaches are quite different. If you are developing a schedule for home use, the size of the nuts is of importance. In general, the bigger the nut the easier it is to handle, the easier it is to shuck and crack. The percentage of kernel is relatively less important than it is in the commercial cracking. The size of the particles recovered is more important for home use. If they come out easily and in large pieces, they are much more desirable.

On the other hand, in commercial cracking the percentage of kernel is important. The commercial buyer wants to know how many pounds of kernels can be expected from a hundred pounds of nuts. He is not much interested in the size of the nuts or the size of pieces that are recovered. This is an entirely different approach to the problem. We have got to decide between the two before the committee goes further.

Dr. Crane: There is another angle to the problem. A lot of the black walnuts today are used in the bakery trade and in the ice cream trade. But I visualize a market for black walnut kernels to be eaten out of hand. There are many people in the United States that like the flavor of black walnut kernels to eat in this way. I know I am one of them, and I don't want to eat crumbs. I don't want to eat small pieces. I like to have at least quarters.

I think that if we were to gather from the status of our other native nut industry that there is going to be a premium paid for the larger pieces, then cracking quality _would_ enter into the matter. Our pecans are sold on count of whole kernels per pound or per ounce. Almonds are sold the same way. Walnuts the same way--that is, Persian or English walnuts. The number of kernels or pieces per pound is an important matter, notwithstanding the situation as it exists in the black walnuts today. So I do think that we can't take the present status of the industry as one which will prevail generally and in the future.

Mr. Weber: Would the majority report favor the side of the home consumer rather than the commercial buyer?

Dr. MacDaniels: I think it depends on what Mr. Stoke would think about the majority. We didn't get a chance to get together, because Mr. Stoke was so busy with exhibits.

Mr. Weber: We might end by moving the adoption of the majority report and let it get at that.

Mr. Stoke: I know I brought up that matter of whether we should judge by standards acceptable to the commercial buyer or to the ultimate consumer. The confectioner doesn't care about the size or color at all. When they are put up in candy or in chocolate cookies, color doesn't mean anything. It's a black walnut, and it doesn't have to depend on anything else. So I think those two points of view are pertinent.

I never expressed any preference, and I don't know that I have any. I think it might be just as well to leave that up to this body. But the producer, or those anticipating producing must be considered. Mr. Hirschi can give us the word on marketing kernels.

Mr. Hirschi: I do not market kernels. I just crack the nuts and sell them by the pound cracked.

Dr. MacDaniels: Shell and all?

Mr. Hirschi: Shells and all. I sold about a ton and a half each winter for the last four or five winters. They are Thomas walnuts. I get 35 cents a pound with the horse shoe nail in the package.

Mr. Stoke: That man wants good color, good flavor, kernels easy to pick out, and of good size. That goes with the retail buyer. If the commercial buyer gets 30 per cent kernels from good nuts compared with 15 per cent from run-of-mine nuts, he doubtless will be willing to pay a considerable premium for the better nuts if he can get them. But unless the good nuts are in considerable quantity they go right in with the others and no more will be paid for them. That's my point of view. I don't want to express my particular opinion, because I have no particular opinion. But you might consider both, the commercial nut, and the home nut.

I think we might vote and determine what action, to take tonight as to setting up a standard, or if you want to set up a double standard.

Mr. Weber: Mr. Mullins does get a better price for a larger kernel. He separates them and treats them differently than the general run of small pieces. It's been my observation that the cracking machines do a remarkably good job with the ordinary run of seedling nuts. Kenneth Dick gets the kernels out in rather large pieces, and from what we saw up at Mullins' place he gets the same thing. He sifts out the larger pieces and gets a better price for them. So the preference is for the larger pieces. It's like buying hamburger; you prefer your hamburger ground up out of larger pieces rather than odds and ends that the butcher has around the shop and grinds it up and hands it to you.

Mr. Stoke: But isn't it true that he sells the kernels in two separate classes?

Mr. Weber: But the preference still seems to be, after we see them, for the larger pieces. They have better kernels; otherwise, they would break up in small pieces.

Mr. Korn: I believe that as long as there are very few commercial orchards, we should approach it from the angle of the people who have just a few pet nut trees around their yards, because I don't think the commercial orchards of the improved grafted black walnuts are going to be large enough to color the picture very much for a few years to come. As long as they haven't been too profitable, I think it is going to be some time before we have to worry much about commercial orchards. Therefore, we are interested in getting a superior product in kernel; it has to be large, has to be of good color and good flavor. It seems to me that would be one of the first things to consider. Then, if orchards get more plentiful and profitable, we can take up the other angle.