Part 22

Many of the objections that hold against the system of water sewerage in most towns are inoperative in Ogdensburg. Not only can the whole city (except a small district near the river) be completely drained by natural fall, but the foul drainage will flow directly into a river that will carry it at once away--a river so large that there is no danger of action ever being taken by cities farther down the stream to prevent the contamination of the water. Indeed the only considerable objection that I can think of against carrying out a properly executed system of sewerage in Ogdensburg is the one item of its wastefulness. Properly deodorized and applied to good agricultural land, the night soil of a town of 10,000 inhabitants would be worth at least $50,000 annually. This shows that the item of wastefulness is worthy of the consideration of all thoughtful persons, and there is no doubt that at some not very distant day its force will be realized and the wasting of sewage will be stopped.

Mr. MIGNAULT. What is the name of this local river that enters here?

Mr. IRVING. The Oswegatchie.

Mr. MIGNAULT. What is your indebtedness?

Mr. IRVING. In 1914 it was $515,000, including the water board debt. The water board debt at that time was $68,250. In computing the bonded indebtedness of a town the water bonds are always excluded.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Has there been any material change since then in your financial situation?

Mr. IRVING. I presume that the issues would be about at a standoff. There have been some few small local bonds issued.

Mr. POWELL. Does your water system pay its way?

Mr. IRVING. These other gentlemen present can tell you about that.

Mr. GARDNER. What is your tax rate?

Mr. IRVING. One dollar and ninety-eight cents this year. That does not include our town tax; that is just the municipal tax.

Mr. GARDNER. Do you have a State tax in New York?

Mr. IRVING. Yes, sir.

Mr. POWELL. Do you tax real property, personal property, and income?

Mr. IRVING. Not income.

Mr. POWELL. That is exempted?

Mr. IRVING. We tax personal property and real estate. Of course, there is a national income tax.

Mr. GARDNER. Do you have a county tax?

Mr. IRVING. Yes; this $1.98 tax includes school and municipal taxes. Then we also have what is called a county tax.

Is there anything else in the way of information that I can give you about this matter? We have our sewer plans here, but I do not suppose they would interest you. The fact is that what sewage we have we empty into the St. Lawrence River.

Mr. GARDNER. You are not an engineer, are you?

Mr. IRVING. No, sir.

Mr. GARDNER. Is your engineer present?

Mr. IRVING. Yes, sir. Would you like to have some information from him?

Mr. GARDNER. Just a few questions bearing upon the sewage.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Did you state what distance from the shore the different outlets are?

Mr. IRVING. Do you mean where they are situated?

Mr. MIGNAULT. Yes.

Mr. IRVING. No. We have the plans here. Part of them go into the Oswegatchie River, which empties into the St. Lawrence, but the others are at different places along the shore; all under the permission given to us by the two State boards and all practically following this particular plan.

Mr. MAGRATH. You do not contemplate installing any water-purification plant?

Mr. IRVING. Yes; we have a splendid one which the board of water commissioners would be glad to tell you about. They are very proud of it.

STATEMENT OF ME. JOSEPH E. TATE, CITY ENGINEER OF OGDENSBURG.

Mr. TAWNEY. You are the city engineer of Ogdensburg?

Mr. TATE. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. You have acted in that capacity how long?

Mr. TATE. For about 10 years.

Mr. TAWNEY. Does the city of Ogdensburg discharge its raw sewage into the St. Lawrence River?

Mr. TATE. Most of it directly and some of it indirectly into the Oswegatchie.

Mr. TAWNEY. You have no plant in which you first treat your sewage?

Mr. TATE. No, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. What kind of a water plant have you?

Mr. TATE. A filtration plant.

Mr. TAWNEY. A sand filtration plant?

Mr. TATE. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you suffered in Ogdensburg in recent years in consequence of the pollution of the water that you drew from the St. Lawrence River?

Mr. IRVING. Mr. Commissioner, will you allow me to suggest that the water board is in a much better position to give you information on those points than the city engineer, as those matters are under the separate and distinct management of the board?

Mr. TAWNEY. What cities are there on the St. Lawrence below Ogdensburg?

Mr. TATE. I believe Montreal is the first large city below Ogdensburg.

Mr. TAWNEY. Are there any small cities or towns?

Mr. TATE. Yes; there are several. There is Edwardsburg, or Cardinal.

Mr. TAWNEY. How near is the nearest one to Ogdensburg?

Mr. TATE. About 8 miles. That is on the Canadian side of the river. Then Waddington is 18 miles below. Morrisburg is nearly directly opposite Waddington. Cornwall is farther down, about 40 miles.

Mr. POWELL. Mr. Tate, is Ogdensburg a difficult country in which to cut trenches?

Mr. TATE. Not generally speaking; no. It is clay and sand. Of course there are some streaks of hardpan here.

Mr. POWELL. There is much rock?

Mr. TATE. Well, there is on the west side.

Mr. POWELL. So it would be very expensive work to construct a series of intercepting sewers to connect all the existing sewers, would it not?

Mr. TATE. If we put in filtration plants, we would have to have two plants, one on each side of the river.

Mr. POWELL. I am not speaking about your intake of water and the filtration; I am speaking about connecting with the sewers.

Mr. TATE. Of course if you treat the sewage, you would have to have two separate plants.

Mr. POWELL. Yes; but you would have only one place where the sewage debauched into the river.

Mr. TATE. I think we would have to have two--one on the west and one on the east side.

Mr. POWELL. Well, it would not be very expensive to make these intercepting sewers, would it?

Mr. TATE. I rather think it would be quite expensive.

Mr. POWELL. There is nothing in the character of the soil that would make it expensive.

Mr. TATE. No; there is nothing in the character of the soil that would do so.

Mr. POWELL. How far from the edge of the river do your sewers discharge?

Mr. TATE. Generally right at the face of the bank.

Mr. POWELL. Have you contemplated the making of sedimentation beds or other means of purification of the sewage?

Mr. TATE. No, sir.

Mr. POWELL. You have never made any calculations in regard to that?

Mr. TATE. Our system is a combined one. We take in the sewage and all surface flows.

Mr. POWELL. Does the insane asylum down here connect with your sewerage system?

Mr. TATE. No, sir.

Mr. POWELL. Is their sewage thrown into the river in a raw state?

Mr. TATE. Yes, sir.

Prof. PHELPS. Could you intercept all the sewage without pumping, Mr. Tate?

Mr. TATE. I hardly think we could. I think very likely we would have to pump.

STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE F. DARROW, PRESIDENT OF THE WATER BOARD OF OGDENSBURG.

Mr. TAWNEY. Mr. Darrow, you are the president of the water commissioners?

Mr. DARROW. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. What have you to say in regard to the disposal of your sewage in the city of Ogdensburg?

Mr. DARROW. Well, we have never suffered from any pollution of the water supply, because we have filtered all of our water that has been taken from the St. Lawrence. Our water supply up to four or five years ago was the local river, the Oswegatchie, but we suffered from typhoid there, and we changed over into the St. Lawrence and put in a slow sand filtration plant. We have been almost completely free from any typhoid or any other water-borne disease since then.

Mr. TAWNEY. Do you chlorinate your water?

Mr. DARROW. No; we never have, except at one time, when we had a little break in our intake pipe.

Mr. TAWNEY. You discharge all your sewage directly into the river, do you?

Mr. DARROW. Yes, sir. The intake pipe is above the city and there is nothing that would cause contamination nearer than the village of Morristown, which is 12 miles away on this side of the river.

Mr. TAWNEY. How is it with respect to the towns below you?

Mr. DARROW. The State hospital formerly got their water supply from the St. Lawrence, and they suffered so severely from typhoid, owing to the pollution by the city, that they changed their water supply to the city supply.

Mr. TAWNEY. How far is the hospital from the city of Ogdensburg?

Mr. DARROW. It is a part of the city of Ogdensburg, but it is probably 2 or 3 miles below the center of the city.

Mr. TAWNEY. How many people are there in that institution?

Mr. DARROW. Two thousand, or a little over.

Mr. TAWNEY. What is the width of the St. Lawrence River here in this vicinity?

Mr. DARROW. It is about a mile and a quarter.

Mr. POWELL. Do you have daily examinations of the water in order to ascertain its purity?

Mr. DARROW. Yes; our superintendent can give you all details as to that.

Mr. POWELL. It is practically free from bacteria?

Mr. DARROW. Yes; practically so.

Mr. TAWNEY. What supervision is exercised by the State board of health over your water supply and the health conditions?

Mr. DARROW. It was put in entirely under their supervision and protection, and the health officer takes samples of water from the taps throughout the city at any place he desires, and those samples are submitted to test at Albany.

Mr. TAWNEY. Does the State board of health have any voice in the management or supervision of your plant?

Mr. DARROW. I can not say as to that. There has never been any interference on their part.

Mr. TAWNEY. Do you make reports to the State board of health with respect to the purification of your water?

Mr. DARROW. No, sir. I understand, however, that if the plant goes wrong they have the power to come in and see that matters are corrected.

Mr. TAWNEY. In other words, they have the power to lock the stable after the horse is stolen?

Mr. POWELL. You supply the material for the test and the State makes the test?

Mr. DARROW. We have our own laboratory that makes its own tests, and then the State board of health supplements those tests from time to time.

Mr. POWELL. They take their own samples?

Mr. DARROW. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. Is there any State law in New York with respect to the discharge of raw sewage into rivers or running streams that you know of?

Mr. DARROW. Not that I am aware of.

Mr. TAWNEY. So every city or village or town is free to utilize the St. Lawrence River, or any other river on which it may be located, as an open sewer?

Mr. DARROW. That seems to be the case; at least, they practice it. I know that where shallow streams have been used and it has been a palpable nuisance that they have applied for injunctions and restraining orders on account of its being a nuisance.

Mr. TAWNEY. What is your opinion with respect to the wisdom of utilizing these running streams as open sewers? Do you think cities of some considerable size should be prohibited from discharging raw sewage into streams where cities below are dependent upon the same stream for their water for domestic and sanitary uses?

Mr. DARROW. I think they should be prohibited from doing so. I think that all pollution of all streams should be prohibited. I think that it is not only a menace to the public health, but it is a great economic loss.

Mr. TAWNEY. That is the judgment of all the sanitary experts and engineers that we have had before us throughout this entire investigation, and I am very glad to know that you corroborate their views.

Mr. POWELL. You are opposed to depositing raw sewage into a stream entirely?

Mr. DARROW. I certainly am. Of course, I think it is an evil that has got to be overcome slowly.

Mr. TAWNEY. Yes; but ultimately it will have to come.

Mr. DARROW. Ultimately it will have to come; yes.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Then, your opinion is that cities should be forced to treat their sewage?

Mr. DARROW. Just as speedily as it can be accomplished. I think it is on a par with garbage collection; that it should be done, and that eventually cities will find that it is a source of income instead of a source of expense.

Mr. GARDNER. Is there any other gentleman from Ogdensburg who wishes to be heard now, or who has anything to offer on the subject?

(There was no response.)

Mr. GARDNER. If not, we will proceed to hear the representatives of the next town who appear before us.

(There was no response.)

Mr. TAWNEY. Is there anyone else from any other city or town on the St. Lawrence in this vicinity who desires to be heard on this subject?

(There was no response.)

Mr. TAWNEY. Dr. McCullough, have you or Mr. Dallyn anything to offer with respect to this St. Lawrence district?

Dr. MCCULLOUGH. For my own part, I do not think so. I think all we have to say about it is set out in the report.

Mr. TAWNEY. You are the head of the health service in the Province of Ontario?

Dr. MCCULLOUGH. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. I want these gentlemen present to know that you are the head of the health service in the Province of Ontario, and that Mr. Dallyn is the sanitary engineer of the Province.

Mr. DARROW. I think something ought to be done with the State of New York, because all of these plans for sewerage in the boundary waters are approved by the State of New York. The institutions owned by the State of New York are running their sewage into the boundary waters.

Mr. TAWNEY. The State boards of health, I think all of them, have been very cordially in sympathy with the investigation into this matter which the commission has been conducting for the last three years, and I do not apprehend that any recommendations that the commission may finally make to the two Governments, with respect to it, will be opposed by the State, judging from the expressions we have had from them. If there is nothing further, the hearing will be considered closed, and the commission will go into executive session for the purpose of considering some other matters that we intend to take up at this time.

(The commission then went into executive session and the hearing adjourned.)

INDEX.

Activated sludge process, 99-112.

Adams, Alexander, appearance, 34; statement, 52.

Alexandria Bay, pollution from, 127.

Appearances, Buffalo, 2-3.

Appearances, Detroit, 33-34.

Appearances, Ogdensburg, 117.

Auburn, sewage plant, 70.

Barron, W. M., appearance, 34.

Bennett, William B., appearance, 3.

Blomshield, H. L., appearance, 34; statement, 85-87.

Brian, M. E., appearance, 34.

Bridgeburg, water supply, 9.

Brockville, sewage system, 117-118, 122, 123-126, 127; water supply, 118-119; population, 134; taxation, 134; bonded indebtedness, 134.

Brown, Mason L., appearance, 34; statement, 50-52.

Bryson, G. H., appearance, 117; statement, 123-126.

Buffalo, hearing, 1-31; water supply, 14, 18; sewage problem, 17-21; cooperation with the commission, 19; typhoid cases, 20, 31; use of chlorine gas, 20-21, 22.

Cape Vincent, pollution from, 130.

Carr, O. E., appearance, 3; statement, 14-15.

Chapman, Frank, appearance, 117.

Chicago, typhoid rate, 22.

Chicago Drainage Canal, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 98-99.

Chlorination, in Buffalo, 20-21, 22; in Lockport, 29; effect on water, 30; in Wyandotte, 41-42; insufficiency of, 43.

Chrysler, J. E., appearance, 117.

Cincinnati, sewage plant, 14.

Clark, Dr. Edward, appearance, 3; statement, 29-30.

Clarke, H. W., activated sludge, experiments, 99.

Clayton, pollution from, 147.

Clinton, George, appearance, 3; statement re Erie & Ontario Canal Co., 3-4; re scope of investigation, 4-5, 6, 7, 23-24.

Dallyn, F. A., appearance, 3, 33, 117; re water plant at Niagara camp, 11; statement, 47-50, 130-131.

Darrow, G. F., appearance, 117; statement, 154-157.

Detroit hearing, 31-114; report on pollution, 36; suggested sanitary district, 36-37, 85-86; sewage problem, 66, 71-72, 88, 92-95; water supply, 89, 113-114; bonded indebtedness, 95-96.

Dewey, George K., appearance, 117; statement re financial condition of Brockville, 134-135.

Diamond Crystal Salt Co., description of plant, 56; interest in purification system, 56.

Dittoe, A. H., appearance, 34.

Dowsley, R. R., appearance, 117.

Ecorse, water supply from Detroit, 41; sewage system, 52.

Eddy, Harrison P., report on Cincinnati sewage plant, 14.

Engel, George, statement, 95-96.

Erie & Ontario Canal Co., 3-4, 10.

Essex Board of Utilities Commission, objects of, 53-54; officers of, 54.

Evanston, F. S., appearance, 117; statement, 131-134.

Fenkell, George H., appearance, 33; statement, 34, 88-92.

Filtration, importance of, 43.

Follin, James W., appearance, 33; statement, 38-42.

Ford City, typhoid at, 38.

Fort Erie, water supply, 9.

Fowler, Gilbert J., activated sludge experiments, 99.

Frank, Leslie C., appearance, 33; statement, 73-79.

Fronczak, Dr. Francis E., appearance, 3; statement, 20-21.

Gardner, Obadiah, explanatory statement, 30-31, 115-116.

Goodale, Dr. A. W., statement, 146-149.

Grand Rapids sewage problem, 66-70.

Grandville, case against Grand Rapids, 66-70.

Great Lakes Pure Water Association, 60-61; objects of, 113; officers of, 113.

Hatton, T. Chalkley, letter, 79; statement, 97-112.

Hill, Charles B., appearance, 3; statement, 7, 19-20.

Horton, Theodore, letter, 3.

Howell, Carl L., appearance, 3.

Hubbell, Clarence W., appearance, 33; statement, 92-95; report, 88-89, 90, 91.

Imperial Oil Co., pollution of St. Clair River, 63-64, 66.

Interceptors, location of, 48, 50-51.

Irving, Andrew, appearance, 117; statement, 150-153.

Jackson, A. W., appearance, 34.

Jennings, Max, appearance, 34; statement, 52-53, 55.

King, Francis, appearance, 34, 117; statement, 82-85, 149-150.

Knowles, Morris, appearance, 34; statement, 60-63.

Kreinheder, Arthur, appearance, 3; statement, 4.

Kyle, W. H., appearance, 117; statement, 126-130.

Lambert, Dr. W., appearance, 34.

Lang, J. R. A., appearance, 117.

La Salle, water supply, 14.

Leisen, Theodore, statement, 112-114.

Livingstone, Col. William, appearance, 33; statement, 79-82.

Lockport, water supply, 8-9; reduction of typhoid rate, 29.

London, cost of drying sludge, 140.

Macauley, Dr. A. J., appearance, 117; statement, 119-123.

McCullough, Dr. J. W. S., appearance, 33, 117; statement, 45-47.

McKinlay, John F., appearance, 33.

McRae, H. C., appearance, 33.

Malone, John F., appearance, 3.

Marx, Oscar B., appearance, 33.

Michigan State Board of Health, powers and policy of, 44-46.

Milks, George R., appearance, 3.

Milwaukee, sewage treatment, 11, 12, 48, 79, 97-112; sewage commission report, 104-105.

Monroe, typhoid at, 40.

Montreuil, C. J., appearance, 34.

Murdock, Russell A., appearance, 34.

New York State Board of Health, jurisdiction of, 155, 156.

Niagara Falls as an aeration plant, 11.

Niagara Falls, Ontario, water supply, 9, 10.

Niagara Falls, N. Y., water supply, 8, 14; sewer system, 14; typhoid death rate, 15.

Niagara-on-the-Lake, purification plant at military camp, 11, 46.

Niagara River, extent of contamination, 14.

North Tonawanda, water supply, 14.

Norton, Capt. George H., appearance, 3; statement, 17-19.

Ogdensburg, hearing, 115-157; sewage system, 150-153; population, 151; assessed valuation, 151; bonded indebtedness, 152; water supply, 154, 156.

Ontario Board of Health, powers of, 45.

Paterson, Edward A., statement, 135-146.

Perkins, F. C., appearance, 3; statement re pollution of Niagara River, 7-14.

Perry, William G., appearance, 34.

Phelps, Earle B., appearance, 2, 33, 117; pollution of Niagara River, 24-26; statement, 72; standard of purification, 26-27, 28; surface drainage, 28-29.

Pollution from shipping, 65, 73-79, 80-82, 82-85, 122, 128-129.

Pollution Investigation, 44-45, 63.

Port Huron, pollution at, 49.

Prescott, sewage system, 131-134; assessment, 133; bonded indebtedness, 133.

Price, Dr. William H., appearance, 33.

Pryer, R. U., appearance, 33.

Redwood, Sir Boverton, report on extraction of products from sewage, 138.

Rich, Edward D., appearance, 33; statement, 35-38.

River Rouge, water supply from Detroit, 41; purification plant, 50; population, 51-52.

St. Clair, sewage system, 52, 55, 56-57, 58, 59-60.

St. Clair River, pollution of, 63, 64-65; effect of oil pollution on fisheries, 64.

St. Lawrence River, pollution of, 119, 130-131, 149.

Salamon, Alfred G., report on extraction of oil, etc., from sewage, 138.

Sanitary survey on Detroit River, 39-40.

Sans Souci, pollution at, 65.

Sarnia, pollution at, 49.

Screening, efficacy of, 36.

Sedimentation, 38.

Seelbach, R. L., appearance, 3; statement, 15-17.

Sewage Oil Syndicate, 144.

Sheriff, C. J., appearance, 117.

Sloman, Adolph, appearance, 34; statement, 63-72.

Sludge, disposal of, 37-38.

Sludge, disposal of, 100; extraction of oils, etc., 101-102, 103, 108-109, 135-146.

Standard of purification, 26-28, 41-47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 55, 61, 62, 88-92.

Steamboats on Great Lakes, passenger traffic, 81.

Stewart, William J., appearance, 2, 33, 117.

Tate, Joseph E., statement, 153-154.

Thousand Island Park, sewage system, 146, 147; population, 148.

Tolles, F. C., appearance, 2.

Tonawanda water supply, 8-9.

Trenton, typhoid at, 38; sewage system, 85-87.

Vaughan, Henry, appearance, 33.

Vessels, pollution from, 65, 73-79, 80-82, 82-85, 122-123, 128-129.

Waring, George E., report on Ogdensburg sewage system, 150, 152.

Waterman, E. L., appearance, 33; statement, 42-44.

Weil, Charles Lewis, appearance, 34; statement, 55-60.

White, James, appearance, 117.

Wimbledon, cost of drying sludge, 140; extraction of products, 141, 143; extraction plants, 141, 143.

Wollatt, William, appearance, 34; statement, 53-55.

Worcester, sewage plant, 70.

Wright, George A., appearance, 117; statement, 117-119.

Wyandotte, typhoid at, 38; water supply, 42; purification plant, 50.

Transcriber’s Note:

Footnotes were renumbered sequentially and were moved to follow the table in which the related anchor occurs.

Words may have inconsistent hyphenation in the text. Misspelled words were corrected, as were obvious printing errors, such as words missing a letter or letters in reversed order, and incorrect punctuation at the ends of sentences.

Words and phrases in italics are surrounded by underscores, _like this_.

There are several references in the proceedings to “B. coli,” that could have been mistyped by the recording secretary for “E. coli.”

The following were changed:

added missing “of” … water out of it … changed “deduce” to “produce” … produce a lot of chemicals …