Part 5
Evagrius, Presbyter and deputy, said:[25] [It is plain] ‘that he promised to appear within four and even within two days. What then were you waiting for? was it, as you say, that you considered the opinion of your colleagues, the Eastern Bishops was to be waited for? Then you ought to have said so in your message, and not to have pledged yourself to discussion.’
Palladius said: ‘I had come, believing it to be a General Council, but I saw that my colleagues had not assembled. I decided however[26] to come, in accordance with the summons, to bid you to do nothing to the prejudice of a future Council.’
12. AMBROSE, Bishop, said: ‘You yourself required that we should sit to-day, moreover, even this very day you have said yourself “we come as Christians to Christians.” You have therefore acknowledged us for Christians. You promised that you would engage in discussion: you promised that you would either assign your own reasons or accept ours. We therefore willingly accepted your opening, we wished that you should come as a Christian. I offered you the letter of Arius, which that Arius wrote, from whose name you say that you often suffer wrong. You say that you do not follow Arius. To-day your sentiments must be made clear; either condemn him, or support him by whatever passage you will.’
He went on; ‘Then according to Arius’s letter Christ the Son of God is not everlasting?’
Palladius said; ‘We said that we would prove ourselves Christians, but in a full Council. We do not answer you at all to the prejudice of a future Council.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘You ought to state your profession of faith straightforwardly.’
Palladius said; ‘And what do we reserve for the Council?’
Sidenote: Rom. i. 20.
Sidenote: 1 Cor. i. 8.
13. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘He has been unanimously condemned who denies the Eternity of the Son of God. Arius denied it, Palladius, who will not condemn Arius, follows him. Consider then, whether his opinion is approved of; it is easy to perceive whether he speaks according to the Scriptures, or against the Scriptures. For we read: _God’s eternal Power and Godhead_. Christ is the Power of God. If then the Power of God is everlasting, Christ surely is everlasting; for _Christ is the Power of God_.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘This is our faith: this is the Catholic doctrine; who says not this, let him be anathema.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
14. EUSEBIUS, Bishop, said; ‘He says specifically that the Father alone is everlasting, and that the Son at some time began to be.’
Palladius said; ‘I have neither seen Arius, nor do I know who he is.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘The blasphemy of Arius has been produced, in which he denies that the Son of God is everlasting. Do you condemn this wickedness and its author, or do you support it?’
Palladius said; ‘When there is not the authority of a full Council, I do not speak.’
Sidenote: Acts i. 18.
15. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘Do you hesitate after the divine judgements to condemn Arius, when he has _burst asunder in the midst_?’ and he added; ‘Let the holy men too, the deputies of the Gauls, speak.’
Constantius, Bishop and deputy of the Gauls, said; ‘This impiety of that man we always have condemned, and we now condemn not only Arius, but also whoever does not say that the Son of God is everlasting.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘What says also my Lord Justus?’
Justus, Bishop and deputy of the Gauls, said; ‘He who does not confess that the Son of God is co-eternal with the Father, let him be accounted Anathema.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
16. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘Let the deputies of the Africans speak too, who have brought hither the sentiments of all their countrymen.’
Felix, Bishop and deputy, said; ‘If any man denies that the Son of God is everlasting, and that He is co-eternal with the Father, not only do I the deputy of the whole province of Africa condemn him, but also the whole priestly company, which sent me to this most holy assembly, has itself also already condemned him.’
Anemius, Bishop, said; ‘There is no capital of Illyricum[27] but Sirmium: I am its Bishop. The person who does not confess the Son of God to be eternal and co-eternal with the Father, that is, everlasting, I call anathema; and I also say anathema to those who do not make the same confession.’
17. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘Hear what follows.’ Then it was read; “Alone eternal, alone without beginning, alone true, Who alone has immortality.”
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘In this also condemn him who denies that the Son is very God. For since He Himself is the Truth, how is He not very God?’ And he added; ‘What say you to this?’
Palladius said; ‘Who denies that He is very Son?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Arius denied it.’
Palladius said; ‘When the Apostle says that Christ is God over all, can any one deny that He is the very Son of God?’
18. Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘That you may see with how much simplicity we seek the truth, lo, I say as you say: but I have then only half the truth. For by speaking thus, you appear to deny that He is very God; if however you confess simply that the Son of God is very God, state it in the order in which I propose it to you.’
Palladius said; ‘I speak to you according to the Scriptures: I call the Lord the very Son of God.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Do you call the Son of God very Lord?’
Palladius said; ‘When I call Him very Son, what more is wanted?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘I do not ask only that you should call Him very Son, but that you should call the Son of God very Lord.’
19. EUSEBIUS, Bishop, said; ‘Is Christ very God, according to the faith of all and to the Catholic profession?’
Palladius said; ‘He is the very Son of God.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘We also are by adoption sons; He is Son according to the property of His Divine Generation.’ And he added; ‘Do you confess that the very Son of God is very Lord by His Birth and essentially?’
Palladius said; ‘I call Him the very Son of God, only-begotten.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘Do you then think it is against the Scriptures, for Christ to be called very God?’
20. PALLADIUS being silent, Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘He who says only that He is the very Son of God, and will not say that He is very Lord, appears to deny it. Let Palladius then, if he does confess it, confess it in this order, and let him say whether he calls the Son of God very Lord.’
Sidenote: S. John xvii. 3.
Palladius said; ‘When the Son says, _That they might know Thee the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom Thou hast sent_, is it by way of feeling only, or in truth?’
Sidenote: 1 S. John v. 20.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘John said in his epistle; _This is the true God_. Deny this.’
Palladius said; ‘When I tell you that He is true Son, I acknowledge also a true Godhead.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘In this also there is evasion; for you art wont to speak of one only and true Godhead in such manner as to say that it is the divinity of the Father only, and not that of the Son also, which is one only and true. If then you wish to speak plainly, as you refer me to the Scriptures, say what the Evangelist John said; _This is the true God_, or deny that he hath said it.’
Palladius said; ‘Besides the Son there is none other that is begotten.’
21. EUSEBIUS, Bishop, said; ‘Is Christ very God, according to the faith of all and to the Catholic profession, or in your opinion is He not very God?’
Palladius said; ‘He is the Power of our God.’
Ambrose, Bishop said; ‘You do not speak frankly; and so anathema to him who does not confess that the Son of God is very Lord.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Let him be accounted anathema, who will not call Christ, the Son of God, very Lord.’
22. The reader continued; “Alone true, Who alone hath immortality.”
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Has the Son of God immortality, or has He it not, in respect of His Godhead?’
Sidenote: 1 Tim. vi. 16.
Palladius said; ‘Do you accept or no the words of the Apostle, _The King of kings Who alone hath immortality_?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘What say you of Christ the Son of God?’
Palladius said; ‘Is Christ a divine Name or a human?’
23. EUSEBIUS, Bishop, said; ‘He is called Christ indeed according to the mystery of His Incarnation, but He is both God and Man.’
Palladius said; ‘Christ is a name of the flesh: Christ is a man’s name: do you answer me.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘Why do you dwell upon useless topics? When Arius’ impious words were read, who says of the Father that He alone hath immortality, you cited a testimony in confirmation of Arius’ impiety, quoting from the Apostle, _Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto_. But if you understand it, he has expressed by the Name of God the dignity of the whole Nature, inasmuch as in the Name of God, both Father and Son are signified.’
Palladius said; ‘You also have not chosen to answer what I have asked.’
24. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘I ask you to give your opinion plainly, has the Son of God immortality according to His divine generation, or has He not?’
Palladius said; ‘In respect of His divine generation He is incorruptible; and by means of His Incarnation He died.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘His divinity died not, but His flesh died.’
Palladius said; ‘Do you answer me first.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Has the Son of God immortality in respect of His Godhead or has He it not? But have you not even now betrayed your fraudulent and insidious meaning according to Arius’ profession?’ and he added; ‘He who denies that the Son of God has immortality, what think you of him?’ All the Bishops said; ‘Let him be accounted anathema.’
25. PALLADIUS said; ‘A divine offspring is immortal.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘This also have you said evasively, to avoid expressing anything clearly about the Son of God. I say to you, the Son hath immortality in respect of His Godhead, or do you deny it and say that He has not.’
Palladius said; ‘Did Christ die or not?’
Sidenote: S. Matt. x. 28.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘In respect of the flesh He did: our soul does not die: for it is written, _Fear not them who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul_; seeing then that our soul cannot die, do you think Christ died in respect of His Godhead?’
Palladius said; ‘Why do you shrink from the name of death?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Nay, I do not shrink from it, but I confess it in respect of my flesh: for there is One by Whom I am released from the chains of death.’
Palladius said; ‘Death is caused by separation of the spirit (from the flesh), for Christ the Son of God took upon Him flesh, and by means of flesh he died.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘It is written that Christ suffered: He suffered then in respect of His flesh: in respect of His Godhead He has immortality. He who denies this, is a devil.’
Palladius said; ‘I know not Arius.’
26. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘Then Arius said ill, since the Son of God also has immortality in respect of his Godhead.’ And he added, ‘Did he then say well or ill?’
Palladius said; ‘I do not agree.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘With whom do not you agree? Anathema to him, who does not frankly unfold his faith.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
Palladius said; ‘Say what you please; His Godhead is immortal.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Whose? the Father’s or the Son’s?’ And he added: ‘Arius heaped together many impieties. But let us pass to other points.’
27. Then was recited; “Alone wise.”
Palladius said; ‘The Father is wise of himself, but the Son is not wise.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Is then the Son not wise, when He Himself is Wisdom? For we also say that the Son is begotten of the Father.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘Is there anything as impious and profane as this which he said, that the Son of God is not wise?’
Palladius said; ‘He is called Wisdom, who can deny that he is Wisdom?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Is He wise or not?’
Palladius said; ‘He is Wisdom.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Then He is wise, if He is Wisdom.’
Palladius said; ‘We answer you according to the Scriptures.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Palladius, as far as I can see, has attempted to deny also that the Son of God is wise.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘He who denies that the Son of God is wise, let him be anathema.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
28. EUSEBIUS, Bishop, said; ‘Let Secundianus also answer to this.’
Secundianus being silent,
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘He who is silent wishes to reserve his judgement.’ And he added, ‘When he says that the Father alone is good, did he confess the Son or deny Him?’
Sidenote: S. John x. 11.
Palladius said; ‘We read, _I am the good Shepherd_, and do we deny it? Who would not say that the Son of God is good?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Then is Christ good?’
Palladius said; ‘He is good.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Arius then was wrong in asserting it of the Father alone, since the Son of God also is a good[28] God.’
Palladius said; ‘He who says that Christ is not good, says ill.’
Sidenote: S. Luke xix. 17.
Sidenote: Ib. vi. 45.
29. EUSEBIUS, Bishop, said; ‘Do you confess that Christ is a good God? For I also am good. He has said to me; _Well done, thou good servant_; and, _A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good_.’
Palladius said; ‘I have already said, I do not answer you until there is a full Council.’
Sidenote: S. John vii. 12.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘The Jews said _He is a good man_; and Arius denies that the Son of God is good.’
Palladius said; ‘Who can deny it?’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘Then the Son of God is a good God.’
Palladius said; ‘The good Father begat a good Son.’
30. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘We also are begotten of Him and are good, but not in respect of Godhead. Do you call the Son of God a good God?’
Palladius said; ‘The Son of God is good.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘You see then that you call him a good Christ, a good Son, not a good God; which is what is asked of you.’ And he added; ‘He who does not confess that the Son of God is a good God, Anathema to him.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
31. The reader likewise continued; “Alone mighty.”
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Is the Son of God mighty or not?’
Palladius said; ‘He Who made all things, is He not mighty? He Who made all things, is He deficient in might?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said: ‘Then Arius said ill.’ And he added; ‘Do you even in this condemn Arius?’
Palladius said; ‘How do I know who he is? I answer you for myself.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Is the Son of God the mighty God?’
Palladius said; ‘He is mighty.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Is the Son of God the mighty God?’
Palladius said; ‘I have already said that the only-begotten Son of God is mighty.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘The mighty Lord.’
Palladius said; ‘The mighty Son of God.’
Sidenote: Ps. lii. 1.
Sidenote: 2 Cor. xii. 10.
32. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘Men also are mighty; for it is written, _Why boastest thou thyself in mischief, thou mighty man?_ and in another place, _When I am weak, then am I strong_. I ask you to confess that Christ the Son of God is the mighty Lord; or if you deny it, support your denial. For I speak of one Power of the Father and of the Son, and I call the Son of God mighty in the same way as the Father. Do you hesitate then to confess that the Son of God is the mighty Lord?’
Palladius said; ‘I have already said, we answer you in discussion as we can; for you wish to be sole judges, and at the same time parties to the case. We do not answer you now, but we will answer you in a General and full Council.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Anathema to him who denies that Christ is the mighty Lord.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
33. It was likewise recited; “Alone mighty, Judge of all.”
Palladius said; ‘The Son of God, the Judge of all. There is Who gives, there is who receives.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Did He give by grace or nature? Men also have judgement given them.’
Palladius said; ‘Do you call the Father greater or not?’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘I will answer you afterwards.’
Palladius said; ‘I do not answer you, if you do not answer me.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘Unless you condemn in order the impiety of Arius, we will give you no power of asking questions.’
Palladius said; ‘I do not answer you.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Is the Son of God, as has been read, Judge or not?’
Palladius said; ‘If you do not answer me, I do not answer you, as being an impious person.’
34. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘You have my profession, whereby I will answer you. In the mean time, let Arius’ letter be read through.’ And he added: ‘In that letter you will find that sacrilegious argument also which you are endeavouring at.’
Palladius said; ‘When I ask, do you not answer?’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘We call the Son of God equal God.’
Palladius said: ‘You are Judge: your note-takers are here.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Let any of yours write, who please.’
35. PALLADIUS said; ‘Is the Father greater or not?’
Sidenote: S. John v. 18.
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘In respect of His Godhead the Son is equal to the Father. You have it in the Gospel that the Jews persecuted Him _because He not only broke the sabbath, but also called God His Father, making Himself equal with God_; what then impious men confessed while they persecuted, we who believe cannot deny.’
Sidenote: Phil. ii. 6–8.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘And in another place you have: _Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but emptied himself[29] and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and became obedient unto death_. You see that in the form of God He is equal to God. And _he took_, S. Paul says, _the form of a servant_. In what then is He less? In respect surely of His form of a servant, not of the form of God?’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘Just as, being established in the form of a servant, He was not less than a servant; so being established in the form of God, He could not be less than God.’
36. AMBROSE, Bishop, said; ‘Or say that in respect of Godhead the Son of God is less.’
Palladius said; ‘The Father is greater.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘In respect of the flesh.’
Sidenote: S. John xiv. 28.
Palladius said; ‘_He who sent me, is greater than I_. Was the flesh sent by God or was the Son of God sent?’
Sidenote: Ib. 27, 28.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘We prove this day that the holy Scriptures are falsely cited by you, for thus it is written: _Peace I leave unto you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid: If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I._ He did not say, He Who sent me is greater than I.’
Palladius said; ‘The Father is greater.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Anathema to him, who adds to or takes from the holy Scriptures.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
37. PALLADIUS said; ‘The Father is greater than the Son.’
Sidenote: Heb. ii. 7.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘In respect of the flesh the Son is less than the Father: in respect of Godhead He is equal to the Father: I read therefore that the Son of God is equal to the Father, as also the instances that have been adduced testify. But why should you wonder that He is less in respect of the flesh, when He has called Himself a servant, a stone, a worm, when He has said that He is less than the angels, for it is written: _Thou madest him a little lower than the angels_.’
Palladius said; ‘I see that you make impious assertions. We do not answer you without arbiters.’
Sabinus, Bishop, said; ‘Let no one ask for an opinion from him who has blasphemed in such countless opinions.’
Palladius said; ‘We do not answer you.’
38. SABINUS, Bishop, said; ‘Palladius has now been condemned by all. The blasphemies of Arius are much lighter than those of Palladius.’
Sidenote: Ib. vi. 13.
Sidenote: S. John viii. 56.
And when Palladius rose, as if he wished to go out, he said; ‘Palladius has risen, because he sees that he is to be convicted by manifest testimonies of the Scriptures, as indeed he has been already convicted: for thus it has been read, that in respect of Godhead the Son is equal to the Father. Let him admit that in respect of His Godhead the Son of God has no greater: it is written: _When God made promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no greater, he swear by himself_. You see therefore the Scripture, that He could swear by no greater. But it is the Son of Whom this is said, since it was He Who appeared to Abraham, whence also He says, _He saw my day and was glad_.’
Palladius said; ‘The Father is greater.’
Eusebius, Bishop, said; ‘When He spake as God, He had no greater; when He spake as man, He had one greater.’
39. PALLADIUS said; ‘The Father begat the Son; the Father sent the Son.’
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘Anathema to him, who denies that in respect of His Godhead the Son is equal to the Father.’
All the Bishops said; ‘Anathema.’
Palladius said; ‘The Son is subject to the Father; the Son keeps the commands of the Father.’
Sidenote: S. John vi. 44.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘He is subject in respect of His Incarnation. But even you yourself remember that you have read; _No man can come unto me, except the Father draw him_.’
Sabinus, Bishop, said; ‘Let him say whether the Son is subject to the Father in respect of His Godhead, or in respect of His Incarnation.’
40. PALLADIUS said; ‘Then the Father is greater.’
Sidenote: 1 Cor. i. 8.
Ambrose, Bishop, said; ‘In another place also it is written; _God is faithful, by Whom ye were called unto the fellowship of His Son_. I say that the Father is greater in respect of the assumption of the flesh, which the Son of God took upon Him, not in respect of the Son’s Godhead.’